“Eckhart Tolle, Who do you say that I Am?” – Jesus-
March 17, 2008It is recorded in the Gospel of Matthew 16:13-17 that Jesus asked his disciples two questions. The first seems primarily designed to provoke thought, the second commitment. “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?” was the first question and it resulted in a group discussion concerning the various opinions commonly held about Jesus at that time. The second question was more personal and pointed: “But who do you say that I am?” The actual Greek of the text emphasizes the personal pronoun “you” by placing it at the beginning of the sentence and repeating it later in the sentence. A more accurate but less readable translation would be, “But you, who do you say that I am?”
In A New Earth Eckhart Tolle gives his answers Jesus’ question. Is the Jesus of Eckhart Tolle the Jesus of the Bible and history or is it another Jesus? To be fair, A New Earth is not a book about Jesus – it is a “book about you” (p. 7). Which is also, by the way, why it is not spiritually helpful. A New Earth is an attempt at self-salvation apart from Jesus. It is not a book about Jesus because Eckhart Tolle does not believe that Jesus is the unique Son of God and only Savior. In Tolle’s view, we are going to save ourselves and our world apart from Jesus Christ. I’m getting ahead of myself….
To Tolle Jesus was one of “humanity’s early flowers” (p. 6). He like Buddha, Gautama Siddhartha and Lao Tzu was an “awakened” human” who “pointed to the possibility of awakening from the collective nightmare of ‘normal’ human existence” (p.14, 71). Jesus was not unique as the Son of God. What Jesus discovered about himself is what is, or at least could be, possible for every human if they are awakened. When Jesus said, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life” he was not saying something uniquely true of himself. He was pointing us to the truth about ourselves (p.71). These are the things Tolle believes about Jesus.
Of course, Tolle must say that evangelical Christians have gotten it all wrong about Jesus:
The world was not ready for them yet (Jesus, Buddha, etc.) and yet they were a vital and necessary part of human awakening. Inevitably, they were mostly misunderstood by their contemporaries, as well as by subsequent generations. Their teachings, although simple and powerful, became distorted and misinterpreted, in some cases even as they were recorded in writing by their disciples. Over the centuries, many things were added that had nothing to do with the original teachings, but were reflections of a fundemental misunderstanding. Some of the teachers were ridiculed, reviled, or killed; others came to be worshiped as gods. Teachings that pointed the way beyond the dysfunction of the human mind, they way out of the collective insanity, were distorted and became themselves part of the insanity (pp. 14-15).
A widespread flowering was not yet possible at that time, and their message became largely misunderstood and often greatly distorted. (p.6)
For a guy who says we shouldn’t say someone is right or wrong he sure says orthodox Christianity has gotten it all wrong about Jesus often enough. I guess if you say, “misunderstood” it sounds nice. Just so you know, I’m not bothered by his saying I’m wrong. I’m bothered by his dislike of giving others the same freedom. Anyway…
Tolle’s Jesus was not the unique Son of God, God incarnate, the Lord, the Creator, the only Savior. To Tolle Jesus is not the Mighty God, Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace. Jesus was simply a man who became awakened or enlightened to the “Consciousness,” or the “Presence.” Apparently, to Tolle any teachings that are attributed to Jesus that contradict his views, or any teachings by Jesus disciples contrary to his views are a distortion and a misunderstanding.
Of course, to accept Tolle on this point you have to think he has more understanding about Jesus than those who personally lived with him. You have to believe that Tolle has some special insight into what is accurate and true in the New Testament and what is not. You have to believe that Tolle is able to pick out of the New Testament those things which Jesus really taught and those things which he did not teach. Somehow Tolle is able to say with all seriousness, Jesus’ contemporaries and subsequent generations of followers of Christ have all misunderstood Jesus, and now he is going to explain him for us.
So how does Tolle draw his conclusions about Jesus? Clearly, not based upon an intellectual investigation (and I am not suggesting he is not intelligent – he is). He can’t seriously suggest that Jesus was just another religious guru who has the same awakened consciousness that Tolle has, and then expect us to believe he came to that conclusion through any kind of full study of Christ’s life and teaching. He is basing his understanding of Jesus on his own philosophical presuppositions. He has a certain view of the world, god, human nature, the future, salvation etc. and anything that doesn’t fit with that he discards. He is adhering to a closed system of thought. He cherry picks what he wants to use from the New Testament and even then has to say that they way those things have been understood for 2,000 years is wrong.
To Tolle Jesus is not God – at least not in the sense understood by orthodox Christianity. Tolle cannot think of Jesus as God in that way because to him God is not a personal being. God is an essence, a presence and consciousness that has become unconscious. We are all god, we are all the I Am. God is in everything and everyone and everyone and everything possesses this “being.” God is not a person to Tolle. God is not the Holy, Holy, Holy divine Lord before Whom we all must stand and give an account. Since Tolle’s view of God is distorted his view of Jesus must also be distorted.
Two things I find it unfortunate and tragic about this: First, that Tolle would use Jesus to sell his Eastern mysticism. I can’t find any other reason why he would need to even mention Jesus in A New Earth. As I stated in another comment on another post, I would not have given this book or Tolle any attention had he kept Jesus and the Bible out of it. There are a lot of books on Eastern mysticism, Hinduism, etc. filling bookstores and I never have mentioned one. I suspect Tolle uses Jesus to make what he is saying seem pallitable to Westerners, to Christians, to church people. Second, I find it really tragic that people are not more discerning when encountering this sort of thing. I find a number of people don’t seem to recognize the difference between Tolle’s view of Christ, God, salvation, human nature and eternity and the historical orthodox view.
I don’t believe Tolle can, with a clear conscience, use Jesus to buttress his views. I think he knows that as well. That is why he had to repeatedly say in his book that what Jesus said and who Jesus is has been misinterpreted and misunderstood and distorted by his disciples and his followers for the last 2,000 years. He has to say that because what the New Testament teaches about Jesus and what Jesus said doesn’t support Tolle’s paradigm of the world. Tolle cannot be intellectually honest and give an approving nod to Jesus, say what the New Testament teaches about him is wrong and do so without giving any evidence of that assertion.
I will close this post with a quote from the once atheist and Oxford University professor, C.S. Lewis:
I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him; “I am ready to accept Jesus a s a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept His claim to be God.” That is the one things we must not say. A man who is merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic, on the level with a man who says He is a poached egg, or else He would be the devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was and is the Son of God or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.
Jesus is either a lunatic, a liar, a legend or the Lord.
(Tolle takes one of Jesus’ “I Am” statements and twists it and ends up diminishing Jesus, exalting man, and blaspheming God – more about that in the next post)
Well done!
Bruce
I don’t really know about Tolle or his books. From your article talking about him, you say his view of God and Jesus is distorted, without any reason (except that it’s different from yours). I don’t get the feeling Tolle is saying you are wrong, as in a morally wrong context; rather in a possibly factually correct/incorrect way. Could it be possible that your interpretations are incorrect? His could be as well. =)
Jon,
I do have good reason for stating his views of Christ, God, salvation, heaven and hell etc. are distorted. As I stated if Tolle were writing about his beliefs without using Jesus and the Bible to support his positions, I would have nothing to say about the matter. It would be clear and obvious that he views things differently and that would and could stand alone and people could see it very easily. The problem I am dealing with here is the fact that Tolle has said that orthodox Christianity have been wrong for 2,000 years and the disciples of Jesus were wrong about Jesus and his message. It really is not about his views differing from mine – obviously they do – it is about the fact that he states that Christians have misunderstood and distorted the message of Christ.
These things are not really a matter of interpretation as some might think. Within Christendom there are many subjects that are unclear and open for varying interpretations. Being holy week I will mention one. There are a number of people who believe the crucifixion took place on Wednesday and a lot of others who believe it took place on Friday. Where one might come down on this issue depends on how you interpret the statement that the Jews wanted Jesus off the cross before the Sabbath and it was almost the beginning of the Sabbath. The Jewish way of reckoning time is that the new day begins at 6pm. So if one interprets the Sabbath as referencing the weekly Sabbath day, Saturday, then the crucifixion had to happen on Friday. On the other hand, being the Passover week there were other rests days that may have been referred to as the Sabbath. If the three days and three nights in the tomb that Jesus spoke of meant three 24 hour periods then Wednesday would have been the day of the crucifixion and the resurrection would have happened on Saturday evening – the disciples then discovered the tomb empty on Sunday morning.
Sorry for the long dissertation on that subject – my point is this is a subject that is unclear and open to differing interpretations.
But there are things in the Bible that are so clear and unmistakable that a 1st grader could read them and come to the same conclusion as a PHD. The only way these things can be interpreted differently is if someone distorts what was said. Tolle does exactly that. I have pointed out one place he does so in the post titled “Is he right about what is wrong.”
I have also attempted to do so in this post and intend to do so in the next post concerning how Tolle portrays the I Am statements of Jesus.
So, I have tried not to do what Tolle does – say someone has misunderstood, misinterpreted, and distorted without giving any reason. I am giving reasons and I hope you will check back in and continue reading.
I would suggest to be open to the idea that you and all Christians might be incorrect on things you believe to be Truth about Jesus, the Bible, God, etc. The same would go for Tolle. I would propose that the Bible could be fallible, and have factual errors in them. It could also have many great Truths in them. The same could go for other great works throughout history.
Beyond incorrectness, I would propose being open to the idea that maybe there are things that Christians now and for hundreds of years have misinterpreted about Jesus, God, etc. Maybe Jesus’ messages have been distorted, and that not all that you think is clear and unmistakable is so.
You’ve gotten me interested in checking into Tolle’s book, so thanks! And I do plan to check back in on your site in the future. I happened to stumble on it on the front page of WordPress.com =)
“For a guy who says we shouldn’t say someone is right or wrong he sure says orthodox Christianity has gotten it all wrong about Jesus often enough”
I wish folks like this would be genuine and admit that they do think that people can be wrong instead of hiding behind it to avoid moral criticism of anyone and everything apart from evangelicals and orthodox Christianity.
Actually, I don’t think it is too outlandish to suggest that Jesus’ disciples misunderstood him, for as any teacher will tell you, students don’t always get the lesson — indeed, if Jesus’ disciples were men, then it is to be expected that they misunderstood him on some important points.
How would they understand his very new and radical teachings? They would contextualize them in their already established Jewish (specifically Essene) world view.
And as far as Paul is concerned, I think it is plausible to suggest he purposefully misunderstood Jesus. But that is another discussion.
Just because a few things have been agreed upon for 2000 years does not make them fact. I wonder how many thousands of years people believed the world was flat, or that people could cast spells with toenail clippings and hair?
I do not much care for Tolle, but I see nothing in your discrediting of him that could not be as effectively applied to your argument. After all, in the first century after Jesus’ death there was a proliferation of sects (some of which taught the exact interpretation of Jesus that Tolle advances), so how are we to know that the “orthodox” sect which won out (for political power) had it right? There is much maligned Gospel of Thomas, for example. Was he not a disciple? Oh, but he was indeed a . . . skeptic.
My problem with these arguments, so eloquently encapsulated in the C.S. Lewis quote, is that they alway depend upon some kind of ultimatum: either it is this way, or it is that way, there is no third option. And this in a world that is full of a third, fourth, fifth and even a thousandth option.
Though I dislike Tolle, I appreciate what his kind is doing: he is trying to find a way to establish morality and good behavior in an increasingly relative world (if you read him closely, and Buddha for that matter) you will see that they are decidedly not relativists. All that the Christians and Muslims are doing is repeating over and over (without evidence) that their books are ultimate truth, because otherwise the whole structure falls apart.
So I ask this question: in a world that is inexorably heading towards a disbelief in God (you know this is fact) is it more responsible to cling to an increasingly unbelievable world view which cannot function intelligently in a skeptical atmosphere, or is it more responsible to seek for new ways to insure the spiritual health and morality of man?
And so that this question does not smack of an ultimatum, if there is a third option please enlighten me.
Petersonion,
Very well stated – and I sincerely mean that. I appreciate your reasonable approach and willingness to engage thoughtfully.
I would say that while I understand your point about the Lewis quote as an ultimatum I don’t think that invalidates the point he makes. Lewis gives us three possibilities – briefly stated Jesus was a liar, lunatic or Lord. I would add a fourth possibility – he was a legend.
You make some valid points concerning the disciples misunderstanding some things. They themselves actually say as much in the gospels. They seemed not to fully grasp who Jesus was until after the resurrection. Having said that, what the disciples taught about Jesus was not and is not all that was taught of him. The Old Testament contains a multitude of prophetic statements about the Messiah. The 12 were not the only witnesses to Christ – Luke, Acts and Mark, for example were not written by one of the 12. Of course, as you know, these things have been studied, debated and written about for centuries.
I don’t find it reasonable to think that Paul would have made the dramatic turn he made, put himself through as much trouble as he did, for some ulterior motive. But as you said, that is another discussion.
Is the world inexorably heading toward disbelief in God? It might be true that atheism has become more open recently, but I don’t know that it would be accurate to say that it is becoming dominant. Recent studies have shown an increasing spirituality (not an increasing evangelical Christianity, but an increasing paradigm shift toward spirituality and the popularity of Tolle’s book is one evidence of that).
So I don’t think I can accept the underlying premise of your question. Nevertheless, let me try to answer. Clinging implies desperation and I don’t feel desperation. I also don’t see this as a pragmatic, existential issue as your question would imply. I would ask is it reasonable or right for one to dismiss sincerely and deeply held beliefs apart from being convinced in his/her own mind that those beliefs are wrong? If I were convinced that the resurrection was not a historical reality I would join you.
I would also want to know why you would want to insure the spiritual health and morality of man if there is no god? If god does not exist then spirituality is a myth and morality is merely a matter of human convention. Then we have a world in which the morality of Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao, etc. are equally valid with the morality of Jesus and Ghandi.
You clearly have concerns about the moral condition of our world. Would it be wrong to suggest that as belief in God declines so also does the moral condition of man?
Jon Noel,
I do hope you will continue to ask questions about Christ. For the sake of argument, let me accept your premise that it is possible that the disciples of Jesus and Christianity has gotten it wrong all this time – how is it reasonable to think that Tolle after the passing of all this time is somehow able to discipher from the testimony of these same men who got it wrong about Jesus, what Jesus actually taught and what he actually meant? Tolle simply pulls sentences out of their grammatical and historical context and tries to use them to buttress his world-view.
Thank you for sharing…
well done!
God Bless,
~Lisa
My only question for the post is simple: why does the fact that Jesus was “son of God” negate that we all are? Concerning Lewis’ quote: I believe Jesus was and is the son of God. Just like I believe we all of us are.
I don’t see that it’s as mutually exclusive as you are (or anyone else is) making it to be.
hello,
to the author of this weblog, i’m curious as to your experience of reading “a new earth”. did you read all of it? did any of it ring true for you? was there anything in the book that you found helpful or inspiring or freeing?
sean
Peace be with the reader.
I have written a short message for all believers entitled: “Consciousness Gurus”
The message can be found on the Believers
Information Network website
Will,
Great question. While we might be sons and daughters of God because we are created in His image that is not the same thing as what I am saying about Jesus Christ. He is the Son of God as the eternal Son of God who is himself deity. He pre-existed his birth, created the world, was a person prior to his birth and took a human nature upon himself at his birth. That is quite different that anything I could say about myself.
Sean,
Yes, I have read the book and some parts have gone over again. There are some things that are helpful, but nothing that can’t be found in many other self-help books. When Tolle talks about the struggle some people have with identity issues, and pride he gives some helpful advice that could have been given by doctor Phil. My problem is the advice is built on sinking sand and too many will swallow the hook while biting at the worm.
I will say that I think, based upon some of the comments I have received, read the book very casually and without really thinking through the implications of what Tolle is saying and go away thinking “I need to be less selfish, less prideful, less materialistic, etc.”
Prolepticlife,
thank you for your thoughtful reply. A reply such as yours always reminds me how civil and constructive these debates can be, and if there was anything rude in my previous comment I apologize for it.
I am indeed interested in morality, but out of personal reasons, not out of any broad concern for mankind. I agree with Ecclesiastes that “there is nothing new under the sun”, and with Whitman that nothing is any newer or older now than it has ever been. Or any different, for that matter. I do not think the moral condition of man is deteriorating. A historical sense makes this clear.
But the present questions is: is God necessary for spirituality? And regarding the long history of Buddhism (older than Islam or Christianity) I would have to say no. Therefore a broader interest in spirituality, as you have noted, does not imply a spreading belief in God — especially since the spreading interest in spirituality is of the eastern, Buddhistic, Tolle type.
What Christians and Muslims generally say here, is that without God all moral codes are equally valid. But this is obviously not true. In a previous post you noted the importance of diagnosing correctly the disease: and in order to know if it has been diagnosed correctly one need only regard the symptoms. Regarding the symptoms of Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot what do we see: misery and death. Therefore we know that their diagnosis was wrong, it exacerbated the problem.
And yet, there are many examples of moral codes void of God and Christ which created outstanding cultures and men of good character. Egypt, Greece, Japan . . . no need to make a long list.
What this means is that good conduct, morality, the proper way to live can be learned not from revelation but from an astute observation of the natural world, just like science. So long as one remembers that moralities are measured by societies and not by individuals. An individual can be healthy and happy while being immoral, but a society of such individuals would be a wasteland.
I would never suggest that you dismiss your convictions and beliefs, the things which illuminate your life. But would you suggest that others dismiss theirs and adopt yours?
Ultimately, my problems with Christianity are twofold. If you could address these problems for me, who knows, maybe I could finally embrace with enthusiasm the religion of my childhood.
1) Christianity narrows the possibilities of the world.
Although Christians do not believe they could ever life up to the example of Christ, Christ is painted upon the wall as the ultimate template of a human being. And yet, Christ was one type of human being in a manifold world. It would be (an sometimes is) disastrous for very different types of people to imitate Christ. A consequence of this is that everyone has their own “interpretation” of Christ to fit their personal needs. And, as they say, the extensive factionalism, sectarianism (and discord between the sects) is symptomatic of Christianity’s inability to deal with plurality and diversity.
Compare this with Hindusim, where they say that there are as many types of Hinduism as there are Hindus, and yet all consider themselves as parts of one unified, larger system. Consequently, instead of damning certain behaviors, they try to find ways to incorporate them healthfully (i.e., the Kama Sutra, which teaches a good way to pursue a life of pleasure).
And in addition, Christianity de-substantializes the greatness of other traditions. In classical Indian music, for example, certain ragas and bandishes were composed in praise of Krishna or Saraswati. Some of the most spiritualy profound experiences in my life were due to practicing and listening to this music: am I to understand that these experiences were ultimately hollow because they were removed from Christ? Just as the dictates of Judaism precluded a Jewish flowering of visual arts, Christianity precludes many possibilites (a detailing of this would have to be a separeate discussion).
2) Christianity devalues the world.
The whole emphasis in Christianity is upon the afterlife, a future eternal life lived in the presence of God. Thus, all the dictates, practices and moralities taught through revelation are not to make the most of this life (although it will be argued abiding by those practices will result in making the most of this life, but that is purely incidental) but to secure a place in heaven.
And then, not only is this world inferior to heaven, it is also bad. Men are born into sin, the senses are not to be trusted, the pleasures of this world are insubstantial and inferior to devotion and prayer, the body is ugly and dust and just a storehouse for the soul. How is one ever to believe in the goodness of man and this life?
I don’t think it was our eating of the apple of the knowledge of good and evil that robbed us of our innocence, I think it is the ultimatum of heaven or hell. We must continually doubt ourselves, for what is done here has eternal consequences. If I were faithful, I would be afraid to take a step (and I know that we are supposed to have faith in the saving grace of Jesus, but as long as hell exists there is no guarantee — I would be scared to death).
Honestly, I think the absence of God as creator makes this world more meaningful. If God is the creater, than the universe is simply the product of a divine intelligence, which was planned out from beginning to end, which makes this creation limited (the creation, not the creator), boring and less than miraculous.
If this life is product of some sort of absurd cosmic chance — well, then what a miracle! The miraculousness of the fact that I just happen to exist makes me want to climb mountains and scream at the top of my lungs out of incredulity and joy. I am here at no one’s behest. This life is what I make it. I take responsibility for myself.
Suddenly even the mud of the earth, and the mud of human life, are charged with meaning and beauty, because thry exists, because there is nothing else, because it is all miraculous.
. . . . . . . . . . . .
I apologize for the length of this comment. If you make it to the end, I commend you and consider you my friend. Thanks for listening, and if you respond, thanks for taking the time to, it would be very generous of you.
-Peter
Peter,
I didn’t find anything offensive in your first post. As I said it was one of the most well written comments I have received.
You pose some very good questions. I think I must have misunderstood your first post to some degree. I thought you were referring to the recent surge in publications of books by atheists – but you were making a point about declining belief in God as view from Judaism, Islam and Christianity.
My point that all moral codes without God are equally valid was in response to what I thought you were saying – ie. atheism. I stand by that point. If the universe is a random, meaningless, materialistic universe then no one can be right or wrong, good or bad, righteous or evil. It by necessity shouldn’t be anything more than might makes right. That to me is atheism carried to its logical conclusion.
Yes, there are civilizations that are “civil” izations and empires and nations that have elevated moral codes – the ones you mentioned and we could add the Babylonian empire and the Roman empire to the list. My response would be that God has built into the very heart of man his moral code. Paul calls it the “law written on the heart.” Let me quote from Romans 3:14-15 “For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts. Their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them.”
The fact there are certain moral codes that seem to run through the fabric of all successful civilizations seems to give credibility to Paul’s thought.
I don’t mean to sound like I’m being sarcastic here – but you need to hang around some public schools for a while if you don’t think we are in an increasing moral decline. I realize there is an ebb and flow to these things historically. But in saying that I am saying that societies like our generally collapse under the weight of increasing moral chaos.
I’m no expert on Buddhism, but I would suggest that it would not be accurate to say that eastern mysticism is a godless spirituality. I am somewhat familiar with Hinduism, having traveled in India many times and having friends in that country (not that that makes me an expert but it has given me some first hand experience) and it certainly is not a godless spirituality. Tolle is certainly not a godless spirituality. The god concept that Tolle and Hinduism set forth are certainly radically different that the God of Judaism, Islam and Christianity – but there is a god(s) within the religion. I suppose that is why I jumped to the conclusion that you meant atheism devoid of spirituality.
You do have a point concerning one of the failures that Christianity has had to deal with. Christianity did has had a problem during certain periods of distinguishing between culture and Christ. There was a colonial mind-set that was pervasive for a time in the growth of the church. I am happy to say that is disappearing and more and more Christians are recognizing that people from other cultures don’t have to become Westernized to be followers of Christ. It might surprise you to know that across the world Christianity (I almost hate to use that term because of the baggage it carries) is experiencing explosive growth. Indigenous Christianity is becoming the norm. So what it looks like to follow Christ in India, China, Africa, etc. is different than what it looks like to follow Christ in America. So I would say it is not Christianity that limits the possibilities, but a misguided view of Christianity, and a view that thankfully is giving way to a different understanding about what it means to be a follower of Christ.
As to your second point I will again concede that some people can take Christianity in that direction and some done so. But at the same time, I would suggest that is not the norm or natural outcome of following Christ. The name of my blog actually points to what I believe is the normal and natural outcome of following Christ. Proleptic Life means to live in the present in the light of the future. The future is to guide the present. I suppose there are those who view the Christian life as it they have a ticket to heaven and they are just waiting for the train to come and pick them up. To them it is only about the afterlife. I don’t think that is what Christ intended.
Historically and presently that is not how Christianity is being lived out by a vast number of people. While everyone seems quick to point out the inquisition, fewer want to mention how people following Christ has mattered in this present life – Mother Teresa’s ministry to lepers, the work of Habitat for humanity, the universities and schools started and maintained by Christian philanthropists, the origins of the Red Cross and the Salvation Army, the multitude of homeless shelters run by and financed by Christian churches, the children’s homes supported by Christians, etc. Scores of doctors, nurses, dentists and other medical professionals give of their time to help others around the world because they are followers of Christ.
These things are not motivated by a fear of hell. I agree that I would hate to live in that kind of insecurity. I don’t know very many (I do know a couple) of Christians who do what they do because they are afraid of being cast into hell. The promise of Scripture is that those who believe are not condemned. To quote Paul again, “Nothing shall separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
I certainly don’t believe the body is just dust and meaningless and just a container for the soul – that is more in line with Tolle’s teaching than Christianity. The resurrection itself
shows us that the body is an inseparable part of what man is. The idea that we are just going to be some kind of disembodied spirit floating on a cloud playing a harp is certainly not found in the Bible. What the Bible teaches is we are created – body, soul and spirit – and thus we shall be after the resurrection of the dead.
A proper understanding of what the Bible says does not diminish one’s respect for this present world. It sees that man has been given a great stewardship and wonderful freedom to live in creative ways in this world. Understanding that God is Creator and we are made in His image helps us to see that we can be creative, imaginative, constructive. Just as God created the world and looked at it with pleasure and said “it is good” so also should man, made in his image, take pleasure in creating. There is everything right about an artist, musician, carpenter, etc. creating or building and taking pleasure in what their mind/hands have done.
I don’t believe these things are incidental to the follower of Christ. Just the opposite, the follower of Christ has a freedom that comes from a deep seated peace with God and confidence in the abiding presence of Christ and hope that God can take even that which others might mean for evil and use it for good, that gives them the courage to risk, to give, to bless in ways that others may not be able to do.
It seems you have accepted a caricature of Christianity and not Christianity itself. I agree the church is not always the best at portraying what Christianity is supposed to look like.
I heard a story once about Charlie Chaplain secretly entering himself in a Charlie Chaplain look-alike contest. He came in third. Often times genuine Christianity comes in third in a Christianity look-alike contest.
You use some interesting words in the last couple of paragraphs. Joy, meaning, miracle – where do such things come from in a materialistic world? What is joy, love, peace, happiness but just mere chemical reactions in the brain in a random world of chance chemical reactions?
Thanks for the kind and thought provoking comments. If I misunderstood any of your comments or questions again feel free to clarify.
This comment will be brief, I promise!
I appreciate your response, you have given me very satisfying answers. Incidently, what church do you attend? Have you found a community of Christians who think as you do?
Mostly I just want to say thanks, but I thought I would address a few points.
“I don’t mean to sound like I’m being sarcastic here – but you need to hang around some public schools for a while . . .” — this made me chuckle, but only becuase I have been teaching in public schools for three years. I agree, kids are bad. But I have found this has a sociological correlation, not a religious one: the wealthier parents seem to be raising respectful children; the poor kids are coming from divorced, abusive homes where education and respect are not taught. Oh boy do I have theories on how to address these issues! . . but some other time.
I think we more liberally permit the expression of immmorality and decadence, but I don’t think that means there is more of it.
“I’m no expert on Buddhism, but I would suggest that it would not be accurate to say that eastern mysticism is a godless spirituality . . .” — Not all eastern mysticism, but Buddhism is decidedly atheistic. This is something to consider, for (real) Buddhists are very spiritual, and historically men of outstanding character.
“Where do such things come from in a materialistic world? What is joy, love, peace, happiness but just mere chemical reactions in the brain in a random world of chance chemical reactions? . .” — The universe is not materialistic, it is actually mostly void and energy (electricity and light). Nevertheless, I don’t see how identifying the sensations of love and joy and so on as chemical reactions discredits the power, reality and beauty of the experience.
And that’s all. Mostly I have to bow to the intelligence of your defence. Thanks for your time, I’ll be sure to come back and visit.
Petersonion,
I have avoided mentioning the particular “brand” of Christianity I am a part of – I suspect it would stereo type me. I find that within every orthodox community there are all levels of commitment and all kinds of motivations. I stopped looking for the perfect church long ago – even if I found it my joining them would mess things up. The best thing I can do is seek to follow Jesus, and continually try to discover what that means in every day life.
I don’t know why, but when I wrote that comment about hanging around schools I had a gut feeling you were going to tell me you were a teacher.
I don’t doubt your experience that has led to your evaluation of the ways poverty and broken homes plays into the moral question – but I have found that the same moral problems are equally prevailing among the middle and upper class – it just may not be as course, open and obvious.
It is clear that the ‘Jesus’ of Tolle, is not the real Jesus. I explain this in my message entitled:
“Consciousness Gurus”. It is true that much of what Tolle writes make sense, however there is also a great deal of misinformation.
Hello again prolepticlife,
I changed my name to simply “someone” because in my previous posts I was implying that you don’t “truly try to follow Christ” and that was wrong and I think I might have been wrong about you as well. I read your response to Peter, the one you wrote on Mar. 19th at 3:47. Wow, who knew how intelligent you really are.
) I really enjoyed reading and realized our way of thinking is not so different after all. You mentioned that the Christ that some other countries follows looks different than here. That is the point that I was trying to make in a few of my posts but I am not always the best with words or getting my point across. What I really want to know is what is so dangerous about what Tolle is teaching? If everyone could follow Christ (whatever their Christ looks like to them) which in my opinion is exactly what is going to happen to most who read Tolle’s book (that is just my opinion). Maybe I am just too optimistic. Anyway, could you explain what makes it so dangerous and why? My experience after reading the book and so many others have brought us closer to Christ and caused others to think more about Jesus Christ. If this book makes the world a better, more loving, peaceful, less materialistic, helpful, more wise world what bad is there? What you wrote to Peter about Romans 3:14-15 was exactly the point I kept trying to get across before but was failing miserably, ha. I think I even mentioned that scripture and you just said you had read it. People that have the law written on their hearts and follow the law even if they don’t have the law, those were the people I was talking about and I believe you stated something to the effect that noone could live like Christ, everyone falls short, that is true but, I meant people who live by the law written on their hearts to the best of their ability because OBVIOUSLY none of us are going to live exactly like Christ. So, now that we agree on that point please tell me how what Tolle is teaching is so dangerous because the way I see it what Tolle is teaching will get people closer to hearing or feeling that law that is written on their heart. It definitely did mine. So many people like myself have so much pain and other junk on their heart they have trouble hearing or feeling that law.
tolle will hand off all of his followers to the antichrist, just as john the baptist did to Jesus.
tolle’s Jesus is NOT the Jesus of the bible, but then again… the Jesus that most churches preach is not either. the sad thing is, tolle’s peaceful teachings will lead many to destruction and to eventually oppose the true Christ
Someone,
I didn’t take it that you meant you were trying to follow Christ and I wasn’t, so no apology necessary because no offense was taken.
I really wasn’t saying that Christ himself looks different, but rather the way in which people in other cultures live out the Christian life might and most likely does look different. Hudson Taylor, once a Christian missionary in China, was one of the first people in more recent church history to recognize the difference between converting people to a culture rather than to Christ. In his day missionaries generally thought they had to get people to form churches just like the churches they had left in England. They needed to get them wearing clothes like they word in England. They needed to teach them to sing the same hymns that they sang back in England. It was a colonial mentality about missions. Taylor, in spite of a lot of criticism, realized that a man or woman in China need not give up their cultural heritage to be a follower of Christ. They could follow Christ and remain Chinese.
That is different than saying that Christ himself is different. Jesus is who he is and we know who he is because of how he is revealed to us in the Bible. (There are some source materials about Jesus outside of Scripture, but the primary source material we have is the New Testament).
You say, “whatever their Christ looks like to them.” This is where I have a problem with Tolle’s book. He quotes the Jesus of the Bible, points to him to support his ideas, yet the Jesus of the New Testament does not support the ideas of Tolle either by his words or actions. I don’t think one can say that any christ is the Christ.
Christianity – New Testament Christianity – stands or falls on the historical account of the birth, life, death and resurrection of Christ – and supremely the resurrection. If the resurrection proves false then the whole things falls. One believes the historical claims or not.
Christianity should not be embraced for merely what it might provide in this life and should not be believed or rejected merely on pragmatic terms. In other words, one should not say, “I believe it because it helps me.” That kind of subjective belief is likely to lead to a very inconsistent belief structure and world-view. One will end up shifting beliefs based upon whatever happens to be helping them at the moment. Considering that all the apostles greatly suffered and most of them lost their lives because of their belief in Christ it would hard to imagine they intended us to embrace Christ because he helped me be at peace, have joy, get along with people, etc.
Either The Story (the Bible really is only One Story) is true or it is not. Tolle pulls Jesus out of His Story and interjects Him in his own. That is what I object to. I object to the way Tolle claims that Jesus has been misunderstood and misinterpreted for 2,000 years, but gives us no reason to accept that statement other than the statement itself.
Jesus himself warned us that false christs would arise and people would be saying “Look, here is the Christ!” or “There is the Christ.” He said don’t believe it. (Matthew 24:23-26)
Paul warns us that in the last days there will be deceivers who will work with “power, signs, and lying wonders.” (2 Thessalonians 2:7-12)
So I can’t receive or reject something using a pragmatic, subjective standard – ie. it works so it must be good. I also can’t receive or reject it based on appeals to authority (ie. Eckhart Tolle said it, Oprah adopts it it must be right).
How then can we know and follow the truth? How can we know if Tolle is feeding us a spoonful of poison along with the cup of sugar? We have to have an objective standard by which to discern and evaluate. That objective standard is the Scriptures. Of course, not everyone will accept that standard as valid and that in itself would require a long discussion, but for the sake of this comment, I will just acknowledge that it is the standard by which I and a multitude of other Christians discern truth from error.
On to Romans 3 – The first three chapters of Romans are Paul’s way of building his case that no one can be right with God apart from faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. In chapter 1 he gives the most clear explanation for the state of the world in a few sentences that any person has ever penned. He leads into his point in chapter 2 that no one will escape the judgment of God, and no one will have an excuse. The question Paul is anticipating is
“how is it just for God to judge people who didn’t have the law (as written in the Old Testament)?” Paul’s answer is that even if they didn’t have the Old Testament law, they had the law written on their hearts and therefore they have no excuse for their sin.
In other words, Paul is not excusing our falling short. He is saying that each of us stand guilty before God. Jews, Greeks, Gentiles -everyone.
If we have all broken the law of God – whether that was the law written on stone by Moses, or the law written on flesh by God – and therefore we face the judgment of a holy God.
Paul is saying that trying to merit God’s favor will not suffice and not excuse us on the day of judgment. What is needed is the grace and forgiveness of God and God has made that available and free to all men through Jesus Christ.
If we seek acceptance by God based on what we do – our works – salvation becomes a debt that God must pay us. (chapter 4)
Justification is by faith in Christ alone.
So you are right, none of are going to live like Christ, but God is not grading on a curve. Christ, the embodiment of God’s holiness is the standard. Since we all fall short of that standard, we need some other way – Jesus Christ himself is that way.
Back to Tolle’s book – I can see how someone might casually read the book and get some self-help information out of it. But my concern is for all the people who read it and follow a christ who is not The Christ, and follow a god that is not God.
I hope I explained myself ok. I appreciate your input and I do think that you are probably closer to where I am than where Tolle is.
Tolle has a different view of God, Christ, human nature, sin, heaven and hell then the Bible and what Jesus taught. There is no way that I see they can be reconciled.
I am working on a post dealing with Tolle’s use of Jesus’ “I Am” statements and how Tolle uses that to apply to everyone and how dangerous that is spiritually.
Let me close by saying I enjoy your input and the way you discuss these issues.
Peace be with the reader.
It is true that the vast majority
of churches will say that I am the
anti-christ, there will however be
some small congregations that will
be true to the Word. True believers
will be excommunicated from the
churches, just as I predicted.
The Faithful Witness
Duke(Yeshua)
If you look at the followers of any religion, you will find both people who are Christ-like (kind, charitable, forgiving, etc..), as well as those who are cruel and selfish. And of course, everything in between.
Therefore, it is clear that it does not matter what one believes in. All that matters, is how well you’ve learned to set aside your own sinful nature (what Tolle calls the ego), and allow yourself to be an instrument of God’s peace.
This is what Tolle is teaching. He is teaching people how to let go of their sinful nature, and become instrument of God’s peace.
Beliefs are nothing but mental thoughts. Those of us who have not yet learned how to feel the presence of God cling to our beliefs as substitutes for that experience of God’s presence within. “The Kingdom of God is within.”
When you have enough faith in God to be able to let go of your beliefs and say, “You know – maybe I am mistaken about everything”, THEN you will truly experience His presence in your life.
But as long as you believe that you understand Jesus or God or the Bible or any other spiritual teaching, then you are simply choosing your own arrogance over God’s peace.
Instead of arguing who’s right and who’s wrong, I suggest simply stopping and asking yourself this question: “Can I truly know the ultimate truth about anything absolutely?”
You can’t, and you don’t need to. THIS is what leads to the “peace of God that passeth all understanding”.
Erik,
Thanks for your well written comment. I don’t believe it is arrogant to believe something to be true when it is based on objective reality. By that I mean that believing the Bible is not just “mental thoughts.” You may reject my reasons for believing the Scriptures and argue against them, but to say that none of us can know the absolute truth about anything is not something you can seriously suggest that you or anyone else does. If, for example, someone pounds on your door at midnight and screams “fire,” they are making a truth claim. It may be true or it may be false and if it is false, but it is one or the other and you can ascertain the facts with a little investigation. If the cry is false it may be due to the person who is crying out seeing smoke from the pizza you forgot to take out of the oven, it may be a practical joke, or he might be insane and seeing fire everywhere. But there is still an objective reality.
I would agree that no one knows everything about everything. None of us have absolute knowledge. But to throw up our hands, dismiss our minds and say we can’t know the truth is to ignore the words of the Jesus Tolle quotes in his book. “I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” Either Jesus is right or wrong on this one and it seems to me that it would be wise to look at the objective facts of the case and figure it out.
As to the “peace of God that passes all understanding” – this is another Bible passage Tolle rips from its context, isolates and twists beyond recognition. The immediate context is as follows:
“Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let you requests be made know to God; and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.”
Tolle’s god is not the personal, eternal, self-sufficient, holy God of the Bible. Tolle’s god is a presence, an essence, a consciousness that is in everything. It is pantheism.
The Peace that passes understanding is the peace of the God of Scripture – It comes to the believer who refuses to worry but instead brings her needs and cares to this God in faith trusting in this God. This peace is through Christ Jesus – ie. Jesus the Messiah.
Sorry for multiple comments on your thoughts Erik, but I thought it might be better than one long one. Case in point about objective truth. Duke is leaving comments about his writings. If you go to his web page you find that he says he is one of the 2 witnesses spoken of in the Book of Revelation. He says it started in 1984 and had to do with him carrying a New Testament around San Antonio in his shirt pocket (Sorry Duke if I didn’t get that all right I’m going from my memory and don’t have the web page open in front of me).
My point is that Duke is right about himself, or he is wrong. It is the same as I said about Jesus – using C.S. Lewis’s statment – either he is a liar (knows he isn’t and says he is), a lunatic (isn’t but thinks he is) or one of the two witnesses.
Going on Tolle’s philosophy you say we can’t know for sure. My guess is if you read what Duke says you will have made up your mind about which is the case. It isn’t just mental thoughts.
Well, I agree that there is an objective truth. But let’s look at that statement that Jesus made (at least as recorded in the Gospels, which MIGHT have been recorded or translated incorrectly) in which he said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
If you look at that statement through the eyes of a Christian mystic, it could be said that the “me” that Jesus was referring to was not him as a person, but rather the Christ he had identified himself as. In other words, what if he was simply an extraordinary man who became enlightened, i.e. realized his eternal nature not as a person, but as the one Self known as Christ.
In Christian mysticism, Christ is referred to as an extension of God, the one eternal Holy Child of God of which we ALL are a part. In this viewpoint, Jesus was simply like an older brother who woke up first and thus can lead us back to the God. What he said then could be interpreted as, “No one comes to the Father except by Christ.” which is true if you belief that we are all part of the one Christ Self. But since Jesus realized his Christ nature first, he is like an older brother who can help us realize the truth of our Being.
I say all this simply to point out that there are other ways of interpreting the words of Jesus in the gospels, which are equally valid to your interpretation. Therefore, I don’t think that the options are merely that he was lying or a lunatic. He may simply have been misunderstood by those who had not yet experienced the deeper Reality he was point us toward – that we are all One, and eternally loved by God unconditionally.
And if what the Bible says is true about God being perfect Love, then wouldn’t it follow that His Love is unconditional. If that is true, then why would he set up a world in which we must pass His tests or else be damned to eternal hell? That doesn’t sound like a very loving Father to me. That would be like a parent telling their child that they can eat anything in the fridge except for the candy, and then when the child inevitably eats the candy, they are beat unmercilessly by the parent for the rest of their life! If that was done today it would be called child abuse.
The God I believe in IS perfectly loving. The mistakes we have made were simply mistakes, and God’s patience and forgiveness are infinite. He simply wants us to return Home like the prodigal Son. That may not be what you believe, but I invite you to consider that as another viewpoint because it just MIGHT be the truth.
Peace be with the reader.
It is true what proleptic life says about knowing the reality, the truth, being objective.
I do not say that I am one of the two witnesses,
I am both, the written Word(first coming) as well as the spoken Word(this second coming).
This time I am here to bring judgment to the world.
The Faithful Witness,
Duke
The following information has been obtained from a number of web related sources. I have provided hyperlinks and source quotes where necessary.
My hope is that the information will provide some context to the seriousness of the problem and the source from which it comes. God’s blessing and the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ to all my brothers and sisters.
The Bible is not a systematic treatise on Theology, History, Science or any other topic. It is a REVELATION from God of His Plan and Purpose in the Ages as to the earth and the human race. They were given to us piecemeal “at sundry times and in divers manners.” Heb. 1: 1. Holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit during a period of 1600 years, extending from B. C. 1492 to A. D. 100. The Bible consists of 66 separate books; 39 in the Old Testament, and 27 in the New. These books were written by about 40 different authors.
The Bible is the word of God. It reveals the Person, character and works of the Creator. It makes known His eternal purposes in creating the heavens and earth and all living beings. It records the history of man: his origin, his original innocence and fall from innocence; and it outlines the different ages of God’s dealings with him, in the past, presently and in the future. The Bible unfolds God’s plan for man’s redemption from the fall, the price that He paid to accomplish it, and the blessed future of those who receive it. It also tells the fate of those who reject their Creator-Redeemer’s great love.
“Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons.” 1 Timothy 4:1
“For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.” Ephesians 6:12-13
THE SECRET
Cheered by Oprah Winfrey and Larry King, an enticing little book and corresponding DVD have stirred widespread enthusiasm. “It’s making headlines around the world,” announced Oprah’s website, “and buzz just keeps building. Some say it’s the secret to creating the life you truly want—losing weight, making money, finding love.” Rhonda Byrne, the author of The Secret, is a disciple of a couple named Jerry and Esther Hicks. In the Acknowledgements of The Secret, Byrne thanked Jerry and Esther Hicks and the teachings of Abraham… a group of spirit guides that Esther Hicks channels for guidance on spiritual issues. On the Hicks website, they state: “Abraham, a group of obviously evolved teachers, speak their broader Non-physical perspective through the physical body of Esther [Hicks]. Speaking to our level of comprehension, from their present moment to our now, through a series of loving, allowing, brilliant yet comprehensively simple, recordings in print, in video, and in sound — they guide us to a clear connection with our Inner Being — they guide us to self-upliftment from our total self [god-self].”
http://www.abraham-hicks.com
A COURSE IN MIRACLES
http://www.oprah.com/xm/mwilliamson/mwilliamson_acim.jhtml
Oprah Winfrey will be letting out all the stops on her XM Satellite Radio program this coming year. Beginning January 1, 2008, “Oprah & Friends” will offer a year-long course on the New Age teachings of A Course in Miracles.1 A lesson a day throughout the year will completely cover the 365 lessons from the Course in Miracles “Workbook.”
For example,
1.Lesson #29 asks you to go through your day affirming that “God is in everything I see.
2 Lesson #61 tells each person to repeat the affirmation “I am the light of the world.”
3 Lesson #70 teaches the student to say and believe “My salvation comes from me.”
By the end of the year, “Oprah & Friends” listeners will have completed all of the lessons laid out in the Course in Miracles Workbook. Those who finish the Course will have a wholly redefined spiritual mindset–a New Age worldview that includes the belief that there is no sin, no evil, no devil, and that God is “in” everyone and everything. A Course in Miracles teaches its students to rethink everything they believe about God and life. The Course Workbook bluntly states: “This is a course in mind training” and is dedicated to “thought reversal.”
Teaching A Course in Miracles will be Oprah’s longtime friend and special XM Satellite Radio reporter Marianne Williamson–who also happens to be one of today’s premier New Age leaders. She and Conversations with God author Neale Donald Walsch co-founded the American Renaissance Alliance in 1997, that later became the Global Renaissance Alliance of New Age leaders, that changed its name again in 2005 to the Peace Alliance. This Peace Alliance seeks to usher in an era of global peace founded on the principles of a New Age/New Spirituality that they are now referring to as a “civil rights movement for the soul.” They all agree that the principles of this New Age/New Spirituality are clearly articulated in A Course in Miracles–which is fast becoming the New Age Bible. So what is A Course in Miracles and what does it teach?
A Course in Miracles is allegedly “new revelation” from “Jesus” to help humanity work through these troubled times. This “Jesus”–who bears no doctrinal resemblance to the Bible’s Jesus Christ–began delivering his channeled teachings in 1965 to a Columbia University Professor of Medical Psychology by the name of Helen Schucman.
One day Schucman heard an “inner voice” stating, “This is a course in miracles. Please take notes.” For seven years she diligently took spiritual dictation from this inner voice that described himself as “Jesus.” A Course in Miracles was quietly published in 1975 by the Foundation for Inner Peace. For many years “the Course” was an underground cult classic for New Age seekers who studied “the Course” individually, with friends, or in small study groups.
Here are some quotes from the “Jesus” of A Course in Miracles:
“There is no sin. . . ” 9 [See note]
A “slain Christ has no meaning.”10
“The journey to the cross should be the last ‘useless journey.’”11
“Do not make the pathetic error of ‘clinging to the old rugged cross.’”12
“The Name of Jesus Christ as such is but a symbol… It is a symbol that is safely used as a replacement for the many names of all the gods to which you pray.”13
“God is in everything I see.”14
“The recognition of God is the recognition of yourself.”15
“The oneness of the Creator and the creation is your wholeness, your sanity and your limitless power.”16
“The Atonement is the final lesson he [man] need learn, for it teaches him that, never having sinned, he has no need of salvation.”17
A NEW EARTH
Oprah Winfrey has embarked upon a project that has profound implications for the meditation movement. 700,000 of her followers have recently signed up for Oprah’s online course based on Eckart Tolle’s latest book titled A New Earth.
http://www.oprah.com/obc_classic/webcast/ane_marketing.html
Tolle’s teaching is anything but new. One of his sources of inspiration was the 13th century father of German mysticism, Meister Eckhart, who wrote, “He who would be serene and pure needs but one thing, detachment.” It’s interesting that Tolle did “let go” of any attachment to his original first name, Ulrich. He changed it to Eckhart.
Neither facts, logical thinking, nor Biblical faith are relevant to the new spirituality. So it’s not surprising that Eckhart Tolle, celebrated author of A New Earth, dismisses them all as “form” or “ego”: distracting “attachments” that block awareness of human Divinity and oneness with “God.”
To validate his message, Eckhart Tolle reinterprets history. Notice how he blends Eastern and Western mysticism — praising Zen as well as the Kabbalah:
“The greatest achievement of humanity is… the recognition of its own dysfunction, its own madness. In the distant past, this recognition already came to a few individuals. A man called Gautama Siddhartha, who lived 2,600 years ago in India, was perhaps the first who saw it with absolute clarity. Later, the title Buddha was conferred upon him. Buddha means ‘the awakened one.’”[1,p.14]
Some of Eckhart Tolle’s awakened enlightenments follow:
“…religions, to a large extent, became divisive rather than unifying forces. … They became ideologies, belief systems people could identify with and so use them to enhance their false sense of self. Through them, they could make themselves ‘right’ and others ‘wrong’…”[1,p.15]
“…movements developed within all major religions that represented not only a rediscovery, but in some cases an intensification of the light of the original teaching. This is how Gnosticism and mysticism came into existence in early and medieval Christianity, Sufism in the Islamic religion, Hasidism and Kabbala in Judaism, Advaita Vedanta in Hinduism, Zen… in Buddhism….[1,p.16-17]
“…heaven is not a location but refers to the inner realm of consciousness…. Earth, on the other hand, is the outer manifestation in form, which is always a reflection of the inner…. ‘A new heaven’ is the emergence of a transformed state of human consciousness, and ‘a new earth’ is its reflection in the physical realm.”[1,p.23]
“The arising of a new heaven and by implication a new earth are not future events.”[1,p.308]
“If evil has any reality… this is also its definition: complete identification with form…. This results in a total unawareness of my connectedness with the whole, my intrinsic oneness with every other as well as with the Source. This forgetfulness is original sin, suffering, delusion.”[1,p.22]
“Recognize the ego for what it is: a collective dysfunction, the insanity of the human mind…. Nobody is wrong. It is the ego in someone, that’s all.”[1,p.76]
“…only the present moment can make us free. That realization is the awakening…. A new heaven and a new earth are arising within you at this moment….” [1,p.308]
“There exists only the present instant… a Now which always and without end is itself new.”[4] Meister Eckhart
“The Now is also central to the teaching of Sufism, the mystical branch of Islam. Sufis have a saying: ‘The Sufi is the son of time present.’ And Rumi, the great poet and teacher of Sufism, declares: ‘Past and future veil God from our sight; burn up both of them with fire.’ Meister Eckhart, the thirteenth-century spiritual teacher, summed it all up beautifully: ‘Time is what keeps the light from reaching us. There is no greater obstacle to God than time.’”[7]
“…religions, to a large extent, became divisive rather than unifying forces. … They became ideologies, belief systems people could identify with.”[1,p.15]
“The true Church is the kingdom of God on earth …composed of all, regardless of race or creed, who live by the light within….”[1,p.11]
” At that deeper level, all things are one. It is the Source, the unmanifested one Life. It is the timeless intelligence that manifests as a universe unfolding in time.”[1,p.276]
“You realize your true identity as consciousness…. That’s the peace of God. The ultimate truth of who you are is not I am this or I am that, but I Am.”[1,p.56-57]
1. Eckhart Tolle, A New Earth: Awakening to Your Life’s Purpose (Plume, 2005).
4. Meister Eckhart quoted at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/meister_eckhart.html
7. Eckhart Tolle, The Power of NOW (Namaste Publishing, Canada, 2004), page 38.
Thank you for the only writing I’ve found so far that doesn’t promote this new earth nonsense!
You state that HE has a “closed system of thought”. But, it is you who believes the New Testament to be a closed system and that everything translated (or mistranslated), rewritten, added to and deleted from the writers words, who by the way were NOT his apostles or contemporary disciples so they had no more knowledge of what he actually said or taught than does Tolle, cannot be reinterpreted or retranslated, or “cherry-picked” because the biblical “interpretation” and rendering is perfect and closed and can NEVER be questioned. This is your “closed” belief. Is not God a “living God”, meaning He (or Jesus if you will)resides within us and is manifested through us. If Jesus came only to declare his divinity to us, what significance can we then ascribe to his teachings FOR us. Unfortunately, we must “cherry-pick” what become truth for us in the sayings of Jesus which are attributed to him-not either written BY him or even by those who knew him or had heard his voice. That bit of historicity is seldom made known to most Christians. We must take the word of some 2000 Presbyters and their various notations, edits and rewrites over some 300 years prior to the Council of Nisea in handwritten copies of the Gospels as the TRUTH and infallible word of Jesus. We have some 5400 extant manuscripts of the NT, most just fragments or incomplete books, and NO TWO are alike. So, we are to simply accept that in the great wisdom of the self appointed “Bishops of Rome” they were able to render as accurate and forever TRUE the hodge-podge of gospels, epistles and apocolyptic writings, all of indefinite and controversial authorship written and rewritten over 300 years and passed among a sea of churches each practicing its own version of these writings and many more books and writings simply “deemed” apocryphal, again by self appointed “guardians of truth”. Please spare us the “cherry picking” admonition for that is exactly what the early authors and so-called church fathers did. All those who appointed themselves the official arbitors of authenticity and selected the 27 works from hundreds of various writings for the final stamp of “orothodoxy” did nothing but “cherry-pick” what THEY believed fit THEIR belief, and often to bolster their own authoritarian power motives. I have only just begun to cover the hypocracy of your statements, but I believe I have made my point for now. MAY YOU SOMEDAY AWAKEN TO THE TRUTH THAT RESIDES WITHIN YOU, CALLING OUT FOR REALIZATION, AND IS THE LIVING KINGDOM OF GOD OF WHICH JESUS SPOKE AND WISHED US TO MANIFEST ON THIS PHYSICAL PLANE OF EXISTENCE.
Wayne,
In the spring of 1989 syndicated talk show host Larry King interviewed Shirley MacLaine on the New Age. When a Christian caller contested her view with an appeal to the New Testament, MacLaine brushed him off with the objection that the Bible has been changed and translated so many times over the last 2000 years that it’s impossible to have any confidence in its accuracy. King was quick to endorse her “facts.” “Everyone knows that,” he grunted.
Fortunately, this false assumption is groundless.
In a simplified form, this is how the science of textual criticism works. Textual critics are academics who reconstruct a missing original from existing manuscripts that are generations removed from the autograph. According to New Testament scholar F.F. Bruce, “Its object [is] to determine as exactly as possible from the available evidence the original words of the documents in question.”
The science of textual criticism is used to test all documents of antiquity–not just religious texts–including historical and literary writings. It’s not a theological enterprise based on haphazard hopes and guesses; it’s a linguistic exercise that follows a set of established rules. Textual criticism allows an alert critic to determine the extent of possible corruption of any work.
New Testament specialist Daniel Wallace notes that although there are about 300,000 individual variations of the text of the New Testament, this number is very misleading. Most of the differences are completely inconsequential–spelling errors, inverted phrases and the like. A side by side comparison between the two main text families (the Majority Text and the modern critical text) shows agreement a full 98% of the time.
Of the remaining differences, virtually all yield to vigorous textual criticism. This means that our New Testament is 99.5% textually pure. In the entire text of 20,000 lines, only 40 lines are in doubt (about 400 words), and none affects any significant doctrine.
Greek scholar D.A. Carson sums up this way: “The purity of text is of such a substantial nature that nothing we believe to be true, and nothing we are commanded to do, is in any way jeopardized by the variants.”
This issue is no longer contested by non-Christian scholars, and for good reason. Simply put, if we reject the authenticity of the New Testament on textual grounds we’d have to reject every ancient work of antiquity and declare null and void every piece of historical information from written sources prior to the beginning of the second millennium A.D.
To quote Sir Frederick Kenyon, from The Bible and Theology:
The interval between the dates of the original composition and the earliest extant evidence becomes so small as to be in fact negligible, and the last foundation for any doubt that the Scriptures have come down to us substantially as they were written has now been removed. Both the authenticity and the general integrity of the books of the New Testament may be regarded as finally established.
Has the New Testament been altered? Critical, academic analysis says it has not.
Eye witness accounts, lets take a look at the evidence:
Peter, John, and Matthew were in the original apostolic company; they were with Jesus during his ministry for three and one-half years. They were by his side virtually day by day, hence they wrote as eyewitnesses of the things they saw and heard.
James (not the brother of John; cf. Acts 12:2) was a leader in the Jerusalem church (Acts 15:13; cf. Galatians 2:9), and a half-brother of Jesus (Galatians 1:19; cf. Acts 1:14). At first he and his brothers did not believe on Christ (John 7:5; cf. Matthew 13:57), but later he happily acknowledged himself as “a servant of God and the Lord Jesus Christ” (James 1:1). James’ credibility is extremely high, because something overcame his natural reticence to endorse his brother’s claims. Only the Savior’s resurrection explains that turnaround. Too, since Jude was a brother of James, and thus also a half-brother of Jesus, he too overcame an initial disbelief and acknowledged Christ as Lord (Jude 1).
Mark was the son of Mary of Jerusalem, and the cousin of Barnabas (Colossians 4:10). She must have had a close relationship with the apostles, because Peter went immediately to her house when he was released from prison (Acts 12:12ff).
The familiarity of this family with the apostles is confirmed by Peter’s reference to Mark as his “son” (1 Peter 5:13), suggesting a spiritual relationship (cf. 1 Timothy 1:2). Thus, Mark himself would have been a witness of many of Jesus’ deeds. Several ancient writers (e.g., Papias, Irenaeus, and Tertullian) testify that Mark’s Gospel reflects Peter’s influence.
Luke was a Greek whose Gospel narrative was grounded in the eyewitness testimony of those familiar with Christ “from the beginning” (Luke 1:1-4). After studying Luke’s writings carefully, Sir William Ramsay—once a skeptic himself—declared that “Luke’s history is unsurpassed in respect of its trustworthiness” (1979, 81).
Saul of Tarsus (Paul), of course, was a scholar of no meager ability. He was contemporary with Christ and became acquainted with at least some of the apostles (cf. Galatians 1:18). His defenses of Christianity are classic (see Acts 22; 26). Though there is no evidence that Paul saw Christ face-to-face before that encounter on the Jerusalem-to-Damascus road, he had ample opportunity to know the facts regarding Jesus’ miracles, teachings, and influence.
Council of Nicaea
The year 325 is accepted without hesitation as that of the First Council of Nicaea.
The adhesion was general and enthusiastic. All the bishops save five declared themselves ready to subscribe to this formula, convinced that it contained the ancient faith of the Apostolic Church. The opponents were soon reduced to two, Theonas of Marmarica and Secundus of Ptolemais, who were exiled and anathematized. St. Athanasius, a member of the council speaks of 300, and in his letter “Ad Afros” he says explicitly 318. This figure is almost universally adopted, and there seems to be no good reason for rejecting it.
“We believe in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible; and in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten of the Father, that is, of the substance [ek tes ousias] of the Father, God of God, light of light, true God of true God, begotten not made, of the same substance with the Father [homoousion to patri], through whom all things were made both in heaven and on earth; who for us men and our salvation descended, was incarnate, and was made man, suffered and rose again the third day, ascended into heaven and cometh to judge the living and the dead. And in the Holy Ghost. Those who say: There was a time when He was not, and He was not before He was begotten; and that He was made our of nothing (ex ouk onton); or who maintain that He is of another hypostasis or another substance [than the Father], or that the Son of God is created, or mutable, or subject to change, [them] the Catholic Church anathematizes.”
I would hope that the aforementioned speakes for itself.
Bruce,
Thanks for taking the time to give a thorough and thoughtful reply to the oft repeated and groundless charges.
I find it incredible that the same people who will declare the Scriptures, including the words of Jesus unreliable, will then use the words of Jesus as recorded in those same books as a basis for their claims. At least be consistent. Either declare it all worthless or accept it all.
I appreciate your summaries and critique of the New Earth. Sadly, they are hard to come by and we need them desperately, as so many Christians are getting sucked into this. Personally I am a columnist for a local paper and have wanted to write something in response. You’ve given good thoughts for me to use. Can I quote you?
Dave,
I would be honored. If you do would you send me a copy of what you write?
I truly appreciate your intelligent comments and the love that comes through loud and clear when you respond to posters. It is a breath of fresh air in the church of Christ that has been overrun with emotionalism and fear over reason and spirit led peace.
1Cor 1:18 says “For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God”
2 Cor 4:3-4 says “And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God”
Why then are we so surpised that people are eating up Tolle’s views? I pray that God will graciously use your eloquent arguements to open people’s eyes.
The bible states that God predestined some to be His, although He loves every person -this is a great mystery. It also says that it is God who opens the eyes of men to understand the truth of Christ. The only good I see, from eternities perspective, in Tolles’ book is that perhaps it will speak to the heart of the elect person who has not heard the gospel. (the failure of Christians to rise above the din and risk all to be heard, the self-centered nature of man, and many more reasons -but as you say, that is another discussion) God can use things/people that were meant for evil, to accomplish His divine and perfect will. I am not defending Tolle’s thesis at all, but am looking for the good in it.
Thank you for putting yourself out there for Christ. God bless you!
If you have 18 minutes, I would love it if you would watch this video epose about a neuro scientist’s own stroke as she observed it happening that has just been released and make comments on it. http://www.microclesia.com/?p=320
Looking forward to hear what you have to say.The blurb that came with the link states:
A neuro-scientist named Jill Taylor gave a short talk at TED that was probably the most profound depiction of the “deep right brain experience” that I’d ever heard. After her talk, the vibe of the entire conference changed – people were more open, deeper, clearer. Truly remarkable. This video just went on-line today. There is an essential message here for all humanity on acknowledging just how closely connected and related we all are.”
I watched the video Sharon. The only reference point that I have to weight this with is the experiences that I have had in my life so far that venture into this realm of awareness. I do not doubt the reality of this awareness but I do have to focus on what I would call a balanced reality. God in His wisdom created us with a brain that has two hemispheres. It would appear that they are designed to function together. I can see the benefits of focusing on the awareness of the right hemisphere but there are also pitfalls. I can only speculate or compare the message that I see in the video with the combined learnings of my life experience. Have I stood in this awareness, yes I have, only the focus was not so much on the I am of me as it was on the reality of the I Am of God. I do know that I did not want to leave this awareness but the reality of this experience (and there have been more than one) was that I did return to what I call, the balanced reality. What I see is a realization or an awaking of this focused experience coming onto the radar of men’s minds that essentially says that we can see differently, experience differently, react differently, hear differently if we learn to recognize the reality of the I am of ourselves. My experiences did not focus on me, they focused on the I Am of the Bible, namely God the Creator. I do not pretend to understand all the various aspects of this “awareness” but I do know that when prophets of the Old Testament came into the awareness of the I Am of the Bible, they fell on their knees, which incediently is what I did, due to a number of factors that I cannot adequately explain in this forum other than to say that to say that God is Holy, loving and all knowing (as it pertains to my relative achievement at meeting the standard) clearly, at least from my experiences, puts a whole new meaning to me being wholly inadequate to articulate the experience. I do know this, God placed my feet on this earth and part of my journey is to walk on this earth and labor on this earth, using both sides of my brain. If anyone was aware of the potential of the brains capabilities, it had to be Jesus, but He was always focused on the I Am of the Bible, i.e. God the Father. He conveyed this time and time again. I see a danger here, much like the tests that they have done with mice, wherein a reward in self indulgence leaves the mouse in a state where it is so focused on self gratification that it basically exhausts itself. If this new awareness means the openings of ones eyes to the reality of the I am of oneself, I would have to contend that the reasoning of my balanced mind would see this as a move away from God, rather than towards Him. Jesus was not sent to this world to help us become aware of who we are (i.e. the oneness of humanity) God the Father sent His Son because we (i.e. the oneness of humanity) have a problem that separates us from the reality of the I Am of the Bible. If this awareness of our I Am was all that was needed to correct the problem, then Jesus would not have had to die on the cross, but He did. Maybe an oversight on God’s part, I think not. For God so loved the world, that He sent His only begotten Son…. God does not play head games. The cunningness of deception is that the new awareness of the I Am of oneself moves us away from the I Am of our salvation. Food for thought …..
Sharon,
Looks like Bruce did a pretty good job on commenting on the video you linked to. I haven’t had time to look at it yet.
I agree that God can and does use many things to bring about His will. While I believe in the sovereignty of God, I also believe that Satan is fighting for his kingdom and his rule in this world. So, it seems to me to be the right and God-honoring thing to do to speak for the Kingdom of God.
I appreciate your comments.
Thank you Bruce and prolepticlife for your comments. I agree wholeheartedly with Bruce about the the danger of seeking the I AM in ourselves, but rather focusing on the I AM of our salvation. He has put it very eloquently. I don’t think that Jill Taylor set out to affirm Tolle’s thesis, but it is certainly being used that way.
I believe that God is using this whole new serge of New Ageism to prune His church in prepartation for the second coming, separating the wheat from the chaf, looking for those who truly want to love and serve God, to separate them from those who want to serve themselves and their own self-enlightenment. I think it is safe to use the test that our Lord did: you will know them by their fruit!
Peace be with you both, Bruce and Sharon:
Your very detailed and lengthy response to my comment is impressive, indeed. Since I have found that my eyes glaze over in reading these lengthy attempts at reconstructing the proto-orthodox “historical record” and find it difficult to assign any real importance to this material as it relates to my enlightenment, I mostly have foregone this painful self-infliction. So, I leave it to you appologists in your valor attempts to justify, corroborate, indemnify, and petrify the unjustifiable, incorroborative and misindemnity of your specious “history” and circumlocutive arguments. You wish for certainty but it will always elude you for there is nothing certain but uncertainty. My favorite is from Ralph Waldo Emerson who said, “There is no truth so sublime that it may become trivial in the light of new (I would correct that to “now”) thought”. He also said, that “Religion is the relationship between man and his God” Period, end of quote. In other words, rather than spending your time defending and creating new arguments and justifications for your conceptual beliefs, why not try communicating or communing with the consciousness of God within you, right now. If you had begun that process you would now realize who you are and that we are all of the one formless Consciousness which is All That Is!
I have been studying for some time now the work of three very brilliant and pioneering researchers who have been trying through the application of scientific principle to illuminate the nature of man, God and the universe and the means by which we find ourselves here, right now. As Tolle tells us in the beginning of his “Power of Now”, “We are here to enable the divine purpose of the universe to unfold. That’s how important we are.” (I find this manyfold more uplifting and empowering than whether Jesus was the only begotten son of some anthropomorphic egoic mind generated conceptualized belief of God). I find the need to know the origin and nature of my spiritual being and to understand my purpose and the meaning of this existence far outways any need to believe in some ancient prophetic fulfillment and conjectured triune pantheon as the prerequisite to accept a humble man and simple teacher of our divinity, sans his later deification and certain false exclusionist attributions which I find rather unbecoming of the teachings themselves. The One Consciousness from which all creation is made manifest does not exclude anything for there is nothing but Consciousness(God) and its emergent intelligent forms of being.
Here is a sample of what I have uncovered in the research and writings of these seekers of truth:
THE DEMYSTIFICATION OF OUR TRANSCENDENT NATURE
Or, Where Metaphysics and Science Converge
It seems that we have met the ghosts and angels and they are us. Our long belief in and fascination with the metaphysical aspect of our nature and the new revelations detailing the spirit world of our birth and life between lives is now being confirmed by science, or at least the basis upon which our transcendent nature is made manifest in this world as well as the nature of this world as a transcendent manifestation. We are learning through the aid of both quantum physics and regressive hypnosis that our mind i.e. human consciousness is not the epiphenomenon of neuronal brain interactions but emanates from a transcendent domain (spirit world) and is the cocreator of all material reality.
Now in making this wild claim I am neither circumventing science nor denying an ultimate Creator, but am quite simply expositing our current level of knowledge regarding the non-local and transcendent nature of the quantum connectedness of primal particles through empirical science and the revelations of discarnate soul memories of everyday people like you and me through the use of advanced techniques of hypnotic regression. In other words, our consciousness (intelligent spiritual energy) which as a manifestation of our primary soul being is a product of a transcendent reality now being revealed to us through our own “superconscious” memories accessed by Dr. Michael Newton’s hypnotic induction process (see his “Journey of Souls” and “Destiny of Souls”) . Or, as Dr. Amit Goswami, a renowned quantum physicist and author, explains, we literally bring into being physical reality “(w)hen we observe (with our consciousness), the correlated quantum objects (the primal state of materiality which are simply waves of possibility) collapse (when a measurement is made) into actuality (Newtonian material stuff), into separateness,…” and this very same “correlation and its collapse are nonlocal (no local signals or communication), involving a domain of interconnectedness that transcends the immanent space-time domain of reality where things are seen as independent and separate.” He is more amazingly willing to state that this actualization “… takes the nonordinary state of consciousness (Dr. Newton’s superconsciousness?) in which we experience our oneness beyond our individuality and our cocreatorship of the subject-object split world (from Physics of the Soul, pgs. 32-33).” It sure sounds like they are talking about the same source doesn’t it? Just maybe, it’s because they are.
Human testimony from recalled memories (albeit from a discarnate state of being) and empirical science are now on the same page regarding the existence of the soul (our conscious energy) which is transcendent and separate from the physical body. Now, the vast majority of scientists are materialists and despite the indisputable transcendent nature of quantum objects still believe we live in a closed system of reality and could not possibly have any interaction with some “other reality/domain”. This would somehow violate the sacredness of our understanding (natural laws?) that all things are in a constant flux between matter (quantifiable materiality) and energy, and that nothing can be added to and nothing can be taken away from what is already here thus precluding any “exchange” with some other “domain” of beingness. But, there is a small but growing new cadre of scientists who call themselves Monistic Idealists (as opposed to Dualistic Materialists). This is a fancy name for those who now believe that “consciousness is the ground of all being” rather than all things are a product of random molecular conglomerations. A “consciousness” that is connected somehow to a domain transcending or outside of this one in which we now reside.
These bold non-apologetic scientists led by Dr. Goswami are saying physical reality as we know it in a Newtonian/Einsteinian sense (no relation to Dr. Michael Newton, at least that he is aware of) is not just a product of the Big Bang formation of some chance or random mixture emanating from the resultant primordial soup of elements, gases and chemicals but is in a “real” sense a creation of conscious beings of intelligent energy (us) comprised of “light and color” who are sent here from a transcendent reality overseen by an hierarchy of an even greater transcendent beingness to merge with a physical body of the subspecies homo sapiens sapiens. I have exceeded what our new scientists are willing to say, of course, but I will show that what they are now referring to as a “domain of interconnectedness that transcends the immanent space-time domain of reality” is none other than the Spirit World of Dr. Michael Newton’s subjects and the origin of our birth.
So,I am working to awaken those who not only disavow NT biblical teachings (don’t even mention the OT) but even deny the existence of man’s primary spiritual nature. We, I believe agree upon that much, although I am sure your “conceptual belief” is all you know. My understanding is a knowing borne of experience and realization rather than a product of mind generated “intellectual” thought.
Here is what Dr. Newton has learned from his 7000 regression with some 2000 subjects(most all consider themselves Christians of some ilk):
When we observe or witness, from the vantage point of our True Self beyond mind, the insidious nature of our false mind ego-self, the pretender to our identity, we can begin the process of re-identification with that which we are. The following is the latest understanding of our true spiritual nature and identity based upon 35 years of research and over 7000 hypnotic regressions with some 2000 subjects (Dr. Michael Newton’s discovery that we all have memories of our life between lives reported in his two volume work-Journey of Souls and Destiny of Souls) in which his subjects report their activities as discarnate souls. Here are the core findings and spiritual principals, quoted here verbatim from his Life Between Lives: Hypnotherapy for Spiritual Regression, based solely upon what his subjects have reported to him and he characterizes as the “The Way of Souls” (the words in italics and underlinings are mine):
The soul cannot be defined because it has no limits that are perceived about its creation. The most consistent reports of its demonstrated essence is that the soul represents intelligent energy which is immortal and manifested by vibrational waves of light and color.
All human beings have one soul that remains attached to its chosen physical body until death. Souls play a part in the selection of their next physical body (usually only 3 choices are offered) during their reincarnation cycles. The soul typically joins its physical body after conception between the fourth month and birth (important implications for the debate as to when life begins and for the issue of abortion. Some have reported that whether a baby will reach full term is known ahead of time and the soul is advised of this before selection).
Each soul has a unique immortal character. When conjoined with a human brain, this ego character is melded with the emotional temperament, or human ego, of that body to produce a single but temporary personality for one lifetime. This is what is meant by the duality of our mind (so here on Earth the True Self/Soul is the witness and real identity beyond the temporary ego mind of the body).
While soul memory may be hidden from the level of conscious awareness through amnesia, thought patterns of the soul influence the human brain to induce motivations for certain actions.
Souls reincarnate with human beings for countless lifetimes to advance through levels of development by addressing karmic tasks from former lifetimes. Souls grow in knowledge and wisdom through this learning process while pondering their thoughts and deeds in past lives with peers under the direction of teachers (There are many other assignments given advanced souls. Becoming a teacher or guide is only one option. What is reported without contradiction is that each of us will eventually progress beyond the need to reincarnate and take up these duties in an endless succession. There is still much that is unknown about the more advanced hierarchy that is present in the spirit world of our birth, for his subjects have obviously not reached those levels of development as yet.)
Our planet is one of an incalculable number of worlds that serve as training schools for the advancement of souls. During temporary physical incarnations on Earth, souls are provided an opportunity to advance through trial and error to accumulate wisdom. Humans are not bound to a predetermined existence. Various possibilities and probabilities arising from karmic influences and prior soul contracts are subject to the free will of the soul.
Earth is a place of great beauty and joy but also harbors ignorance, hate, and suffering that are man-made combined with natural planetary disasters over which we have little control. Coping with these positive and negative elements on Earth is by design. This planet is a testing ground for souls rather that being a place of evil, demonic influence from outside our world. Spiritual malevolence does not exist within the divine order of love and compassion that comprises our spiritual origins.
Personal enlightenment emanates from within each of us and endows humans with the capability to reach our own divine power without intermediaries.
At the moment of physical death the soul returns to the spirit world, the source of its creation (sometimes we may stay here for awhile longer if we feel a strong need to do so. It is always our decision). Since part of a soul’s energy essence has never left the spirit world during incarnation, the returning soul rejoins with that essence of itself. Thus, spiritual learning never ceases for the soul. The spirit world also offers souls the opportunity for rest and reflection between lives (those who have partaken of particularly egregious acts on earth, however, immediately become aware of their failure and inability to control their human body and temperament and are voluntarily separated from returning to their cluster group of peers. No one as yet has reported the existence of anything akin to a lower world of fire, e.g. Hell. But, there are areas separate from our normal spaces of operation in which various purification processes are used to cleanse the soul of “dark” or negative energy, and can be quite a long isolation for some of the worst cases of violent offenders. But, even they are overseen by highly trained and loving caretakers during this voluntary separation. Eventually most are returned to their group or in some cases reassigned to another. In rear cases these ).
Souls appear to be members of specific spirit cluster groups to whom they have been assigned since their creation. The teachers of each group are the personal spirit guides of members of that group. Members of these groups reincarnate with the soul and assume meaningful roles during a soul’s life on earth.
Rather than being defined as a place of ultimate non-action, or nirvana, the spirit world appears to be a space of soul transition for souls who evolve into higher energy forms with capabilities for creation of animate and inanimate objects. The soul’s energy itself has been created by a higher source. The spirit world has an area of influence which is undefined except that it includes our universe and nearby dimensions.
No earthly religious deities are seen in the spirit world by returning souls. A soul’s closest connection with the divine is with their personal spirit guide and members of a council of benevolent counselors who monitor the affairs of each soul. Souls from earth feel and sense the presence of a god-like Oversoul or Source emanating from above the wise beings who make up individual councils.
The spirit world is composed of highly advanced non-reincarnation soul specialists who regulate the work of the souls in their care. When incarnating souls develop to higher levels of wisdom and performance themselves, they will cease to incarnate and take their place among these specialists, who will assist the still-incarnating souls. Soul specialists apparently are selected by motivation, talent, and performance.
The ultimate goal of all souls appears to be the desire to seek and find perfection, and finally conjoin with the Source who created them.”
If you read the above with an open mind and contemplate the repercussions and implications for a whole range of religious ideologies and theologies still being practiced and believed, you cannot help but come away with a mixture of tremendous hope for mankind and a deep sadness at the millennia of tragic death and misery directly caused by our spiritual ignorance. The striking fact of how inconsequential religious belief itself is treated (actually ignored completely as to whether one had a successful life), particularly dogmatic creeds and various religious idolatry, practices and observances, unless they were the motivation or cause for some harmful or negative actions, is just one of the major revelations of his study. In other words, as most of us with a moral and ethical progressive worldview would surely agree, if our religious/spiritual beliefs help to foster love, compassion, tolerance, peace, harmony, forgiveness together with service to others and these are demonstrated/actualized to the best of our ability, it makes no difference what our ideological or religious beliefs or tenets, creed or other rituals or practices are that we profess. Only our deeds are considered, not what religion or holy book we avow allegiance to- special points given to those who treat everyone with equanimity regardless of their human status as a unique spiritual being of the One Source. As Above, so below. We are not differentiated in the Spirit World so we must presume that it is desired that we bring that which is of our divine home into this one.
What is your personal truth as revealed through you own intuistion, insight, conscience and creativity. That is what will add to joy of life and creation.
My Sincerest Regards,
Wayne R. Wohler
Wayne,
I read your article. I understand your premise. From my perspective the noteworthy captions are as follows:
“So, I leave it to you appologists in your valor attempts to justify, corroborate, indemnify, and petrify the unjustifiable, incorroborative and misindemnity of your specious “history” and circumlocutive arguments.”
Followed by, “(I find this manyfold more uplifting and empowering than whether Jesus was the only begotten son of some anthropomorphic egoic mind generated conceptualized belief of God).”
And, “I find the need to know the origin and nature of my spiritual being and to understand my purpose and the meaning of this existence far outways any need to believe in some ancient prophetic fulfillment and conjectured triune pantheon as the prerequisite to accept a humble man and simple teacher of our divinity, sans his later deification and certain false exclusionist attributions which I find rather unbecoming of the teachings themselves.”
Duly noted.
Your concluding statement that reads, “The striking fact of how inconsequential religious belief itself is treated (actually ignored completely as to whether one had a successful life), particularly dogmatic creeds and various religious idolatry, practices and observances, unless they were the motivation or cause for some harmful or negative actions, is just one of the major revelations of his study. In other words, as most of us with a moral and ethical progressive worldview would surely agree, if our religious/spiritual beliefs help to foster love, compassion, tolerance, peace, harmony, forgiveness together with service to others and these are demonstrated/actualized to the best of our ability, it makes no difference what our ideological or religious beliefs or tenets, creed or other rituals or practices are that we profess.”
I can see why you are here on this blog, articulating Tolle’s perspective, because it can be blended in with yours.
Obviously we have opposing viewpoints and your comments more than adequately demonstrate the rationale behind the voiced opposition to Eckhart Tolle’s message and projected end state.
Thank you.
“Since I have found that my eyes glaze over in reading these lengthy attempts at reconstructing the proto-orthodox “historical record” and find it difficult to assign any real importance to this material as it relates to my enlightenment, I mostly have foregone this painful self-infliction.”
So what you’re saying is that other people’s blogs “bore” you, so you feel the need to post 9000-word comments on said blogs?
You’re a pompous twat.
Dear Will,
I wish to apologize for my haughty remarks that you duly note and am inclined to agree with you that they “sound” pompous, indeed. Again, my apologies. The only excuse or justification I can offer is that I still have remnants of an ego intact, it resurfaces in fact quite often. The process of disidentification so well articulated by Tolle is not an easy process. Old habits die hard. I had also just completed viewing one of “The Great Course” lectures on the “Lost Christianities: Christian scriptures and the Battles over Authentication” which was taught by Professor Bart D. Ehrman. I subsequently discovered he has many detractors in his field of study who are not real happy with his conclusions and have made well reasoned, as did Bruce above, point by point disputations of his work. It was in “recovery” from this immersion that I made the offending remarks, again my apologies.
In respect for your other criticism regarding my rather long-windedness, guilty again. I am and have been fascinated for many years with the history of the Bible not only in the origins of the gospel record but of the historical milieu of Jesus the man. So, I can appreciate the amount of minutia that one has to be familiar with to make sound justifications for current attitudes and beliefs.
I now am fairly familiar with your beliefs and premises and trust you now have a good inkling of my spiritual understanding. What has currently troubled me with the Christian apologists and particularly those who continue to profess a “literal” interpretation of the Bible i.e. Fundamentalists or Evangelicals (please enlighten me as to the subtle differences for I am not clear on this) is there insistence upon including the Old Testament in their cannon of scripture. I would have thought they would have jettisoned this quite opposing worldview of what Jesus later ushered in long ago. How do you reconcile the Loving Father of Jesus with Yahweh and Jehovah? Do you now favor the Intelligent Design perspective over the Creationist view of man’s origins? Are you able to accept any aspect of evolution (not just Darwinian theory, which I believe has been totally disproven by the fossil record by the way-at least regarding the origins of Homo Sapiens Sapiens anyway).
If you are game, I would love to give you all a completely new alternative understanding of our “physical” origins which actually more closely supports the Creationist rather than the Evolutionist view, particularly as propounded by Darwin and his followers. I hope this might surprise you for a “New Ager” like me, for there is now developing tremendous new evidence which contradicts both these black and white views and I sense will soon be entering into mainstream thinking. Are you game to hear about this new evidence?
I hope you will extend some Christian charity and forgive me my earlier trespasses, and continue an even more lively discussion. I promise.
Yours in Peace and Love,
Wayne
Thank you Will for your blunt comments. I see that your brother and I share the same faith. While your spiritual preferences may differ from mine, Wayne’s comments have apparently struck an harmonic cord in both of us.
I can appreciate your perspective on the “privilege of the Bible”. It has been referred to as a “closed mentality” and in essence, I would have to agree with that supposition. Whether we realize it or not, all of us exercise this conclusion process daily in varying degrees. I for one, did not easily enter into the closed mentality that I now adhere to. It, like many things, was a process that evolved through exposure to a variety of inputs and self analysis. To some, the step of faith comes easy, to others , the process must be researched, tested, evaluated and experienced before that step takes place. And there are those who never take that step, never reach a conclusion and never find the peace, confidence and conviction of assurance. I for one am glad that I did take that step. I liken it to learning how to ride a bike. One can never experience the new freedom and joy that learning how to ride a bike brings until one’s feet are removed from that which we have been accustomed to rely on and in faith we step off to the experience that awaits us. My step of faith introduced me to the love, wisdom and power of a living God who sent His Son to open the way. There is an old saying that states that God has no grandchildren. There is no such thing as a second hand experience, concerning the reality and love of God.
I wish both you and Wayne God’s grace.
I dont frequent this blog, but I identify myself as Christian under the broad based definition as my interpretations are always open to new evidence as I petition what I’ve learned to this point. Sadly I must admit that if the world were to awaken as the direct result of Tolle publishing his works, he may be labeled the anti-Christ by many separatist and elitist Christians, solely because of the world peace that would accomplish. From a spiritual self improvement stand point If everyone were to practice Tolle’s philosophy there could be little offence taken by what he or anyone says or does, so there lies a potential for tolerance which also does not bode well with many Christian groups. Tolle attempts to remove the labels and diminish the ego and to show you how you can accomplish this, become less reactive and attain inner peace. It is only guilty of being objective and diminishing absolutes. It does not attempt to define God, but rather to recognize what forms ungodly behavior from within take. How these forms are programmed into us and how to realize it. It gives practical exercises to diminish reactive thought that is ego based, shows how this is a common pattern in the human mind, and how to become aware enough to notice these negative forms long enough to change your self talk, or patterned behavior. If you wish to identify personal negative thought and behavior, to build on positive constructs this work is very useful. There is no danger here in recognizing the God like qualities from the image in which you were constructed.
Dear Clint and Bruce,
I am coming back after a few months away from my interaction and dialogue with Bruce. Clint, your observations and understanding of Tolle’s teachings are excellent. Your last two sentences are particularly insightful and demonstrate the essence of a worldview which is most sorely needed by all of us i.e openmindedness and tolerance. I have found that most Christians who have progressed beyond the old and new fundamentalist orthodoxy find great wisdom and truth in Tolle’s teachings, particularly in their understanding of the false ego mind’s dominance in the creation of suffering in this world. As you so succinctly state, “…to identify personal negative thought and behavior (patterns in themselves and others created in ignorance of our true spiritual nature and origins), to build on positive constructs this work is very useful.” I have always believed that Jesus’ true purpose and message for mankind was to show us how WE could make the divine nature granted us by our Creator (God) more manifest in this physical plane of existence. That He came to awaken the divinity (Holy Spirit or our “God like qualities”) within us all (displacing the false ego personality of self{ish}interest) so that WE could bring more love, compassion, forgiveness and tolerance (our spiritual or divine qualities) into this world. Thereby, creating more abundant life (the joy of being). Is this not the intent and original sentiment of Christianity.
Unfortunately, some Christians have lost this understanding and replaced it with a “belief” requirement entailing a whole litany of prerequisite “mental concepts” or systems of belief (creeds, dogmas and complex theological constructs) which only serve to separate, polarize and most importantly exclude their spiritual brothers and sisters (all mankind) who fail to agree or pass their litmus test of what a Christian should be. Rather than building bridges of acceptance and love they build islands of limitation and exclusion. This is what the ego does in all it’s affairs.
I contend that God (a word we use to point to the best our finite minds can comprehend of the infinite consciousness, existence and bliss -or the joy of being) is not a Christian…nor a Jew or Muslim. In fact, I contend that God is not even religious! These are simply human concepts or constructs created by a human mind which is ignorant of it’s divine nature and origin. I contend as does Tolle that we are the witness or soul (spiritual being created by God) BEYOND mind. We are a temporary form of the formless consciousness made manifest in this world to bring the divine “qualities” into a material existence.
I quoted in an earlier post, “the way of souls” by Dr. Michael Newton which he put together from the reported testimony of over 2000 clients/subjects he had regressed to a discarnate state (see his “Journey of Souls and Destiny of Souls: case studies of Life Between Life“). An integral aspect and principle of our soul nature all of his subjects reported to him (most of whom considered themselves “Christian” before their regression) was that “personal enlightenment emanates from within each of us and endows humans with the capability to reach our own divine power without intermediaries.” Dr. Newton had no preconceived notions of an “afterlife”, and in fact believed death was the end of our existence and actually considered himself an atheist until his clients revealed to him the “life between life” of the spirit world of our birth!
The reason I find Tolle’s teachings so important is that he gives us practical exercises we can use to realize our inherent divinity and actualize the divine qualities that our soul came here to bring into this life. Dr. Newton’s subjects all report the same phenomena and scenario of our spiritual life in a spirit world which controls and monitors our progress here on earth. Here is another principle his subjects all report: “Earth is a place of great beauty and joy but also harbors ignorance, hate, and suffering that are man-made combined with natural planetary disasters over which we have little control. Coping with these positive and negative elements on Earth is by design. This planet is a testing ground for souls rather that being a place of evil, demonic influence from outside our world. Spiritual malevolence does not exist within the divine order of love and compassion that comprises our spiritual origins.” If you would like a brief review of Dr. Newton’s findings, see his 5 part interview on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QDT58Q6Zxo&feature=related. Then, read his pioneering work in his two volumes listed above. His subjects all report the same phenomena and spiritual dynamics regardless of their previous “belief system”. This makes his findings not only overwhelmingly compelling but completely veridical. His work is undoubtedly the most revelational of all metaphysical writings to date.
One other important finding reported by all his clients regardless of their religious or ideological orientation was this: “No earthly religious deities are seen in the spirit world by returning souls. A soul’s closest connection with the divine is with their personal spirit guide and members of a council of benevolent counselors who monitor the affairs of each soul. Souls from earth feel and sense the presence of a god-like Oversoul or Source emanating from above the wise beings who make up individual councils.” Again, these are not the Doctors personal revelations, opinions or beliefs. In fact, as stated above they contradicted his previous “beliefs” completely, as well as most of his subjects who revealed these spiritual realities to him under hypnosis. As you can imagine, this new evidence of our “life between lifes” is an anethema to virtually all religious creeds and dogmas, particularly the most fundamental or orthodox. Tolle’s teachings obviously are aligned with these findings and gives us real world means by which our purpose and mission here, as detailed by Dr. Newton’s subjects, can more fully be actualized.
I realize the profound impact these new truths and revelations will have on organized religious belief, but also see that this new gospel will be the most liberating of all spiritual truths to our finally realizing our divine unity and connectedness with all that is; we are a transcendent and eternal manifestation of the divine Source in which Newton‘s subjects tell us that “The ultimate goal of all souls appears to be the desire to seek and find perfection, and finally conjoin with the Source who created them.”
Remember, as Ralph Waldo Emerson told us: “There is no truth so sublime as it may become trivial in the light of new thought (knowledge)”
May you all realize your own enlightenment right here and NOW,
Wayne R. Wohler
When Eckhart Tolle wrote in his New Earth that “teachings, although simple and powerful, became distorted and misinterpreted … many things were added that had nothing to do with the original teachings, but were reflections of a fundamental misunderstanding” he obviously had in his mind the things which Biblical scholars themselves refer as celebrated difficulties in the Bible, hence provided no proofs as this was not the purpose of his book. For example, Jesus is quoted as saying “No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.” (John 3:13). It is too obvious that that Jesus had not ascended into heaven when he said this, hence could not have made such statements except for the fact that such statements were put into his mouth by writers. And misunderstanding is also a fact: His disciples did misunderstand Jesus’ teaching about the end of the world, for they believed that the end of the world would happen in THEIR generation. (1st Corinthians 10:11). If Jesus had taught that, it would have definitely ended in the first century.
Tolle writes exactly what he had in mind concerning the supposed misunderstandings about Jesus’ teaching. Interesting that Tolle knows what Jesus meant and those who were with him didn’t.
Well, prolepticlife, the problem is that we don’t know what “those who were with him” heard or what they know about “what Jesus meant”! If we actually had the apostle’s own accounts of what they heard and “their” interpretation of what he meant by his many parables and sometimes ambiguous or unclear statements we wouldn’t be having this argument or debate! We, more importantly, don’t have any real assurance or proof that HE said anything that is attributal to him. All we have at best are third party (sometimes more removed than this) accounts of what Jesus said and the story of his activities during those three short years of His mission. We know that James was very unhappy with Paul’s “gospel” and characterizations of Jesus’s message and life and was called back from Greece several times to “correct” him in his overzealous preaching and proslytizing of what James, Jesus’ brother and the head of the earliest “church” after His death, actually knew first hand of Jesus’ life and message. Yet Christians accept and almost prefer Paul’s “doctrine” over any other interpretation (only due to the fact that his are the only first person writings we have-but let us remember, he didn’t know Jesus personally either).
So, let’s stop this inanity regarding who know’s Jesus’ mind better than someone else’s interpretation. ALL are relevant if they are based upon and consistent with one’s own understanding of God’s will for them… for that’s all any of us really knows with any certainty.
In Love and Tolerance,
Wayne
Wayne,
For someone who says we can’t know anything for sure you sure are sure about what you say you know about Jesus, Paul, James etc.
Dismissing my point by trying to compare Paul’s meetings with the Jerusalem church to Tolle’s obvious distortion of Jesus words is not much of an argument.
First of all, where did I ever state that “we can’t know ANYTHING for sure?” I said we can’t know what was intented by or in-the-mind of Jesus in the quotes we have that were attributable to him with any certainty.
Tolle feels that “some” of Jesus’ quotes have been “misunderstood” by some (not all) and gives his reading of them in contrast with Christian orthodox interpretations. Now, you can disagree with his understanding regarding any specific quote and make your claims for why you believe your interpretation is the correct one. What I clearly state above is that due to the fact that we have no writing from the source (Jesus himself) or even any first person accounts of not only what was truly meant by Jesus but what was actually said, NO ONE can claim any certainty! For goodness sake, I can have a different interpretation or understanding of what Tolle writes in his books than you or someone else! I can read Tolle, as I have, and be profoundly moved by a quote, find that it resonates to my very soul as many of his words have done. Someone else, maybe you, can read the same quote and say, “what the heck is he talking about? Some do! I have a friend who thinks he is an atheist and calls Tolle’s work “utter nonsense”. So, who is “right?” It’s not a matter of who is right or wrong. I can be awakened to it as being a profound truth for my life and thereafter be forever transformed by its “truth for me”, while someone else may see “utter nonsense” or feel no connection whatever to the words that are written. I suspect that Jesus’ words have those same effects on different people. That is what I meant by “ALL are relevant if they are based upon and consistent with one’s own understanding of God’s will for them… for that’s all any of us really knows with any certainty.”
I find that most (not all) of what is ascribed to Jesus IS quite profound “for me” as I INTERPRET IT, but is NOT profound for me when I apply YOUR INTERPRETATION! This is equally true for you I suspect, is it not?
So, what is really important here in anyone’s writings is NOT whether yours or my interpretation is the correct one, but rather whether I am INSPIRED to change my life for the better by having read it. Neither Tolle’s nor Jesus’ words are of any value if they fail to move us to greater heights of awareness, love, truth, wisdom, tolerance etc, etc. That is the measure of the greatness of any teaching regardless of the teacher. It is our own transformative feeling experience and its power to move us to act in accordance with the “Holy Spirit” or by helping us to become a channel through our own divine connection to the Creator which WE personally derive from great literature or biblical quotes which is ALL IMPORTANT, not whether it is THE CORRECT interpretation or understanding determined by you or anyone else. If we cannot make the TRUTH our own, it is NOT OUR TRUTH and is therefore worthless to us.
Now, if Tolle has said that the common Christian interpretation of any Jesus quote is a “misunderstanding”, it is an improper characterization. Likewise your calling his understanding an “obvious distortion” is equally improper and specious. This is the point I was making above.
I hope my position is clearer now .
As Always, Your Spiritual Brother,
Wayne
The whole thrust of Tolle’s New Earth is to awaken man from his forgotten identity by highlighting the inherent equality of all human beings as children of God showing, in the process, also the folly of ego-identification as the root of all suffering. This is exactly what Jesus himself summed up not only his own teaching but also of all “the law and the prophets” and even called it as “the will of My Father who is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:12, 21-26) Hence both Jesus and Tolle are saying the same thing. Let us make use of the light and stop arguing about the lamps.
Wayne,
You say “no one can claim any certainty.” So am I to take from that you are acknowledging that my belief in the resurrection and salvation through Christ is possibly true?
There are many things that we CAN know with very high degrees of certainty. Exactly what Jesus said (or whether anything ascribed to him was actually said by him) and any certainty as to what he meant by the many wonderful spiritual truths attributed to him is not one of them.
There ARE many spiritually evident truths “I believe” in those statements attributed to him…that I know for certain…or “believe” in my soul to be true. Your “belief” in resurrection and that your salvation is even required whether through Christ or some other attachment or agency has absolutely no basis in fact…you accept it on FAITH, and faith only, for there is no credible evidence outside the self-declarative statements in the Bible.
There are no proofs from either personal witness testimony (other than from the self same Bible which is unsubstantiated from any OTHER source) or any other criteria of evidence, scientific or otherwise, as to the reality of resurrection or that mankind even NEEDS salvation. Salvation as defined by Christians is based upon the most deceptive and dangerous doctrine ever promulgated upon mankind by other men, the so-called idea of ” original sin”. This is hereditary guilt based upon some silly story of a talking snake. Not even good mythology! Hereditary guilt has no place in the divine order of things in my understanding of a loving God.
I am CERTAIN of one thing, beyond any doubt whatsoever, that there was NO TALKING SNAKE, that deceived my ancestor of mine in a garden causing, by an act of my loving Creator, to forever condemn me as “born in sin”. This is not just nonsense, it qualifies as insanity. Now you can “believe” in this myth (no evidence let alone any proof exists for this inanity) and accept ressurection and salvation as true if you like. You have the free will to choose to believe whatever you want. But, I give it a zero possibility of it possessing any semblence of truth in reality let alone any certainty.
I can produce volumes of evidence as to the principle of reincarnation as an integral means by which our soul progresses, the most compelling compiled in just the last 50 years, and absolutedly no evidence for resurrection.
Now, salvation or redemption can have many meanings outside of biblical absolutisms. But, again there is no evidence whatsoever that our salvation (reletive freedom from immoral or unethical actions against others, as I would define it) is ever achieved by the acceptance or cognitive conceptualization (belief) in heretary guilt and a requirement to accept one teacher as our only means to receive or realize it.
As Krishnamurti proclaimed after a lifetime of seeking the truth of our existence: “truth is a pathless journey”. Each of us must find the way to our own truth and no person or religion can claim to have the only ACCESSS AUTHORIZATION to realize that truth and his/her own personal salvation!
My truth is that we are all eternal spiritual beings of the one divine Creator having a temporary human experience, and NOT human beings having a spiritual or religious one. When you understand your true spiritual nature and your connectedness to the divine Consciousness which created you and to all that is, expecially if you can begin to actualize it in you life, religion is no longer necessary or desired.
Our actions here and how we treat our fellows is ALL that counts, our beliefs or mental cognitions unless they corrupt our actions are of no consequence to any concept of salvation.
Your Brother in Spirit,
Wayne
Ok, so you believe the same lie that Satan has always been pushing – “You shall be as gods.” That is your choice. But I do find it interesting that you dismiss the evidence for the resurrection so glibly and then proclaim your so-called evidence for reincarnation as some sort of factual concept.
The evidence for original sin is all around you every day. The thing you seem to be missing is the fact that you are not doomed to be condemned to that state. Christ “became sin for us that we might become the righteousness of
God in him.”
You and I disagree profoundly about the nature of man. I believe that God created man body, soul and spirit. That no person is complete apart from these three aspects of human nature. I believe that through Jesus death he made a way for us to be redeemed and redeemed completely – body, soul and spirit.
The resurrection is the completion of the work of redemption.
Sorry you don’t agree and think me a fool for believing. That’s fine.
More later when time allows
May I recommend a site I just discovered to you which gives a very different Christian view of Tolle and his message for us. It is entitled “Eckhart Tolle and the Christian Tradition” and is quite enlightening for a “mature” (their characterization, not mine) Christian: https://www396.ssldomain.com/tcpc/library/article.cfm?library_id=534
I don’t think you a fool. I am saddened that you do not use your evident powers of reason, insight and personal spiritual connection to expand your worldview, as other Christians have so eloquently done (see link above). You have not followed the many excellent directives ascribed to Jesus in the NT which clearly contradict or nullify the many false (clearly not universal or beneficial for the common good of all God’s children i.e. other religionists, devout followers of a different path or non-believers) and regional mores found in the OT or even the evangelical or orthodox interpretation of the NT gospel.
Your statement, “The thing you seem to be missing is the fact that you are not doomed to be condemned to that state” makes so many presumptions and conclusions that are not born out by any evidence and is clearly contrary to any compassionate spiritual understanding of a loving Father, that I hardly know where to begin.
Let me give you a little bit of enlightened understanding about people as myself who I believe now outnumber those of your persuasion:
1. We DO NOT ACCEPT the Bible as the word of God. In our understanding of our Creator, which is similar to Jesus’ loving Father, there is no current nor has there ever been any visual or auditory contact. He (used here only as a linquistic nomanclature), therefore, has never dictated or inscribed any commandments, been seen in any burning bushes, directly smitten (smited?) any Caananites or others (the some 3 million plus deaths in the OT [not counting the Flood]attributable to Him), did not assist Moses in parting the Red Sea and He and His Hosts never sat down to the sumptuous barbeques laid out for Him by Aaron and his priests that were prepared for Him daily. We believe this to be self-evident since He has not done any of these things anywhere else in the world (in the Chinese, Japanese, American civilizations for example) and since the Reformation and Enlightenment some 400 years ago in the areas He was so previously active. What changed? Man awakened from the authoritarian enslavement of Biblical “doctrine” promulgated by self-appointed religious rulers of a false “God” and rejected the OT as the true blasphemy of Man.
2. This “God” or “Lord” of the OT was NOT God!!!! We do NOT accept Him as being the One Unitary Consciousness or Creator of All That IS.
I could site thousands of reasons for this understanding, all having to do with the simple fact that the actions and commandments ascribed to Him ARE ABSOLUTELY CONTRARY TO A LOVING CREATOR!!! (I have a book, which makes more sense than anything written in the OT which is entitled “Is Jehovah an E.T.? Dorothy Leon makes a very convincing and compelling case for answering this in the affirmative).
3. The stories in Genesis of our creation are redacted Sumerian texts borrowed by the early Hebrews which were the creation stories of their ancestor’s “gods”, the Annunaki (”those who from heaven to earth came”). See the Seven Tablets of Creation/Chaldean Genesis/Epic of Creation or the Enuma Elish for the original.
4. If there was ever a “being” called Satan he most certainly was the creator of the worst egregously dangerous, ludicrous and enslaving doctrine ever fostered on mankind, “original sin”. Alas, since there is NO SUCH BEING, our sin or the existence of evil actions by men in this world is the result of our IGNORANCE of our true primary and eternal spiritual nature, which IS of the One Consciousness which is GOD.
I could continue but I think you get the point. We simply reject virtually all the writings upon which you base your beliefs. We therefore reject all the premises and presumptions inherent to your arguments and the resultant proclamations, ergo, your conclusions and condemnations regarding our disbelief. We cannot have a rational and logical argument when we cannot agree upon the premises which those arguments are based. The Bible is self-revelation, NOT TRUTH. You must find current EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE outside in the real world to substantiate your arguments. That is the fundamental difference between your understanding and mine. You can reject the new evidence but you do so without investigation. I KNOW yours to be false for they find absolutely no resonance within my soul nor have they any historically corroborative substantiation.
I’ll leave you with a famous quote from Herbert Spencer: “There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ingorance–that principle is contempt prior to investigation.” I have read and studied the Bible, that is WHY I reject it as the word of, or even inspired by, God, with the exception of the spiritual truths ascribed to Jesus. If you wish to investigate the new EVIDENCE of our true spiritual nature, and what God is NOT, please see my reference to Dr. Newton’s case studies of the spirit world into which we are born as SOULS, Amit Goswami’s findings in quantum physics regarding CONSCIOUSNESS AS THE GROUND OF ALL BEING, and Dr. Ian Stevenson’s 40 years of research and seven volumes of medical data making the “Case for Reincarnation”. When you have INVESTIGATED these new FACTS, we can then resume our discussion and arguments regarding man’s true nature, purpose, meaning and the divine principles which guide our spiritual evolution.
Your Brother in Spirit,
Wayne
[...] which brings me to reading Susan’s blog, and finding a “possibly related link” to a guy who’s hot to discredit Ekhart Tolle… and a posting about “Who do you say I [...]
Leonard Jacobson shares the same teaching about Presence as Eckhart Tolle. Jacobson has recently released a DVD of a play which he filmed about the true teachings of Jesus. The play is based on revelations that Leonard had abuot Jesus’ life. Here’s a link to a the video trailer if you are interested.
“Liberating Jesus” trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj2RQtEPQOQ
Movie website
http://www.liberatingjesusthemovie.com
http://www.leonardjacobson.com
My concern regards all “settled” and “organized truth” written down by men just like you and me (Jesus you will remember had no say in what was recorded in his name, nor able to edit it for correctness-I am willing to concede a higher status for him than for us for the sake of this discussion and out of deference to your beliefs)for it requires acceptance en toto whether it resonates within my soul and the living voice of God within me or not. I am supposed to suspend all critical judgment, first as to its accuracy (libraries have been filled with this controversy alone), then as to its definitive veracity. But, most endearing are the consequences I am assured will be my fate if I don’t accept what I personally believe is a spiritual blasphemy of the highest order: that ONLY through my acceptance of his way and life, his ascension, his deification, his sacrifice for MY sins (not of course committed yet-always found this a strange usurpation of my free will which also was given to me by God in your religious theology, is it not?) will my sins be washed away, my salvation “guaranteed”(evidently no matter what heinous crimes I should commit)and I will be granted by his grace a one way ticket to Heaven. Now, who wouldn’t want that. That seems pretty simple and straight forward.
So, why wouldn’t I just be willing to make that admission, allow a good dunking in holy water and declare my acceptance, and be done with it?
Because, I CAN’T WITH ALL THE ENLIGHTENMENT, LOVE, COMPASSION,FORGIVENESS AND TOLERANCE FOR MY FELLOW MAN AND JOY OF THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUSNESS OF ALL THAT IS, ACCEPT WHAT I KNOW TO BE UNTRUE!
Most good Christians speak passionately of their faith and love of God and Jesus and of the miracle of salvation, the cleansing of their soul and the grace of God all granted you by your acceptance of these beliefs. I trust that you have found what you need to live in loving kindness, forgiveness and tolerance and to feel whole. I am certain some find everlasting joy in their beliefs. I would never dispute your profound declarations and I wish you only love and all the blessings you derive from this commitment. And I hope to meet you in the afterlife (actually, in between lives).
What Tolle and I ask is that you grant us this same imprimatur for our spiritual understanding, the same respect for OUR truth as it is revealed to us from the same divine source you have experienced your “redemptive” exultation.
The only REAL problem we have with Christian belief is not in the conceptual constructs of it or the truth of its claims, or in its ritual and ceremony, practice and worship, or even your passionate proclamations to non-believers. It’s when you try and CONVERT, LEGISLATE, JUSTIFY HATE OR CONDEMNATION OF EXCLUDED GROUPS, OR WHEN YOU BELIEVE SO STRONGLY AND FERVENTLY THAT ONLY YOU AND THOSE WHO BELIEVE AS YOU HAVE THE ONE AND ONLY TRUE FAITH AND THEN FEEL RIGHTEOUSLY JUSTIFIED IN IMPOSING IT UPON OTHERS, that’s when we become alarmed and feel threatened by what should be your “personal” spiritual journey alone.
Here is the critical difference: I and all those who find profound lessons and principles for living in Tolle teachings, and in many others I might add including and most endearingly in Jesus’ teachings, would never dream of creating an “organized” religion or even movement around his revealed spiritual wisdom. And just as importantly, we would NEVER deify the teacher or assign him any special status, nor would any true and humble teacher of spiritual truths wish that for themselves.
The reason Tolle cites Jesus 22 times is because we do find profound truths in his teaching. There are also some quite the opposite for a wise and humble teacher (this is OUR understanding and we understand you disagree). We do not have to adhere to any dogma which proclaims the Bible as infallible truth, so we find what IS TRUE FOR US and REJECT the rest. We can do this with impunity and without remorse for the Bible does not BELONG TO YOU or any religious entity (Jews are also very selective if you have not forgotten, and alot more tolerant of Christianity than vice versa). No one has the copyright on the Bible and blasphemy and heresy, thank God, are no longer punishable offenses. Since no one can definitively rule in or out any of what is attributed to Jesus we have become selective in our choices and citations. We do not swear the same premises of absolutism that you do and therefore are free to interpret whatever we want from his attributable sayings. This is what was done by a myriad of Christians and sects in the many scriptual battles over authenticity in the centuries before the proto-orthodox triumph of the Roman wing of the fledgling religion, which was CREATED in abstentia and in his name only and without his permission. I’m not sure he is very happy about what has been perpetrated in his name. I know I wouldn’t be. But, I digress.
Compare these two quotes: Matthew 5:43
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven.”
To Mark 16:15-16
He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned [to hell].
Tell me, which one would you believe was the closest to what our beloved Jesus said? Which teaching do you find to be worthy of a humble and true teacher of righteousness? ….I rest my case, for now.
Peace and Love until we talk again.
Well, this is an interesting discussion. The problem I see here is that most people are writing from a paradigm irreconcilable with Tolle’s nondual platform and unless one is familiar w/ both paradigms (non-dual / dual), well, then we talk in circles. It is a basic misunderstanding of traditional Christianity (not unlike ALL religions) to posit a “person”, a me, a doer, AND a God; ie, two entities: the dual perspective. As long as we are “split” then we’ll argue forever as to who we are and who or what God is (Christians are convinced it is a He!) and ‘religion’ will forever be politicized: Christians vs “the East”, belief vs ‘works’, “the truth” vs everything else… Well, I’d like to posit that Jesus might be best understood, in fact, can only be understood, from the platform that Tolle proposes, that is, where only God (awareness) exists. I think this is the long misunderstood “sword” Jesus brought because if God is, and God is all there is, then individuals (doers in the machine) do not exist. As Wei Wu Wei has told us: “Why are you unhappy? because 99.9% of everything you think and of everything you do is for yourself and there isn’t one!” Also consider Ramana Maharshi “There is neither creation nor destruction, neither destiny nor free-will; neither path nor achievement; this is the final truth.” Interesting when we consider this w/ Jesus’ “I am the truth, the light and the way..” or “I am the Alpha and the Omega” and I suggest to read this as ‘I am IS the truth, the light…”..”I am IS the Alpha and the Omega..” etc. At any rate, I think this understanding is Jesus’ sword because most people can not even listen to, let alone consider, this platform, (because they disappear!) but I think this is the message of the Gospels so please hear me out because the singular and all pervasive “I Am” is the key that unlocks…
To “be still and know” is to know the I am and the I Am is all we ever know, this is what we are. We can say what ever we want, not one of us can say
“I am not”, we all have an I Am and it is the same one that Jesus had and this is how we are all one. The I Am is the energy and the Father (seen me and the Father..) and the Kingdom that is spread everywhere, that which is in you and which moves the universe is the same.
In terms of non-duality we might review the Gospel of Thomas where Jesus states: “When you make the two one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside… then will you enter the Kingdom.” Also note that “For many of the first will be last, and will become a single one.” I urge everyone to study the Gospel of Thomas carefully in light of nonduality as well as the New Testament searching statements of ‘singleness’ (When thine eye is single..). There are numerous texts outside of Christianity that point to and explain the ‘I am’ and if Christians might study a little bit outside of the Bible then I might suggest Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj’s ‘I AM THAT’, and please, read w/ the Gospel in mind as much of the material in the the Bible will come to light. I say this because there is much non-dual statements in the Gospels but until the paradigm is exposed-explained, well, they are missed. Another strong key for me is to study all of the I Am quotes by Jesus and note how many of them are not grammatically correct…”I am come that they might have…” or “For judgement I am come into this world.” (John 9:39). The I Am in these sayings, in my opinion, does not point to Jesus but to the I AM. Well, I have to run but might come back here to post some more on this interesting topic. My email is ov@earthlink.net or info@ov-architects.com so if anyone wants to write. Nisargaddatta is a good one to study or just do a search on Google or youtube on nonduality. Kind regards!
Dear ov,
You make some very valid and astute observations and your understanding of our biblical ancestors and their genuine lack of true spiritual knowledge is correct. As experiencers and co-creators of the One Unitary Consciousness which is God we have decided to incarnate in this dualistic physical world for it is this unique environment with it’s play of opposites and split subject-object reality which is so conducive to our soul’s learning. So this “illusion” of our separateness, actually intentional amnesia regarding our true primary nature as beings of intelligent energy, light,vibration and color, is required for us to progress as souls towards a more perfected state and eventual conjoinment with the Source from which we are imperfect manisfestations. It is the hard lessons of separateness we are now learning here that are so crucial for our spiritual advancement. So, this is all INTENTIONAL.
Now, this is not my own divining or realization. We are now learning through regressive hypnosis that we all possess in our “superconscious” mind, Dr. Michael Newton’s designation, our “soul memories” of what we do between our lives(see his “Journey of Souls” and “Destiny of Souls: New Case Studies of life Between Lives”). I have quoted the 14 core principles of our spiritual nature and that of the Spirit World of our birth (he terms it “The Way of Souls”) in other posts, which all his subjects report. Everyone he has regressed has reported the same phenomena with absolute consistency and not one report contradicts in any way the other 2000 now subjects who have undergone this regression. The non-contradictory nature of these consistent reports make them currently completely veridical. The detailed verbatim reports of our spiritual nature and the make-up of our extradimensional “home” are nothing short of breathtaking. May I recommend your familiarizing yourself with these case studies so that we can expound upon the repercussions of this new testimonial “evidence”(I am aware that others do not consider it sufficiently valid to rise to the level of scientific proof but if “everyone” regressed continues to consistently report the same phenomenal experience between lives, I believe it must rise eventually to that level of acceptance-thousands more are currently undergoing this regression based on Dr. Newton’s induction process) for the spiritual evolution of mankind.
Would love you feedback on this new “evidence” of our immortal transmigrating nature.
Truly Your Brother in Spirit,
Wayne
Thank you for this blog. I was just about to buy the “Power of Now” but a little voice popped into my head and said “Beware of false prophets”. So I decided to do some research on this Eckhart Tolle guy. He’s just a regular guy, who is making a lot of money making people believe that they can do everything apart from dependence on God. The Bible says “You can do nothing apart from me”. I do believe in living in the here and now but Eckhart Tolle says that the past and the future doesn’t exist. I tend to disagree. I believe that there are many dimensions to this world and time travel is one of them, we just haven’t fully discovered it yet. Quantum Physics and Christianity can go hand in hand. The future does exist and so does the past. Eckhart Tolle is a hack.
I haven’t read the power of now. I agree that there are other dimensions. For sure there is a spiritual dimension that we are not yet capable of seeing or fully understanding. We are often forced by the limitations of human language to describe this world with terms that don’t do it justice. We speak of heaven and hell with directional terms like up and down. It is probably more correct to think of this world as a dimensional barrier rather than a distance or directional barrier.
I agree that Christianity and Quantum Physics can and do go hand in hand. God created this universe and to whatever degree any science is true than it is true in its understanding of God.
I also agree that Tolle leads people further from the truth – not closer to Him (the truth)
Finally, a dialogue between people who are intelligent and have a sense of wonder (read spirit or God). Thank you. Peter, you said earlier “I agree with Ecclesiastes that “there is nothing new under the sun”, and with Whitman that nothing is any newer or older now than it has ever been. Or any different, for that matter.” You then must agree with Tolle on his view that all we have is the present moment, the now as he calls it. If we can view each moment without our individual judgment/interpretation, then we will find that it is only our judgments and interpretations that make one moment from another, new or old or different or better or worse. The dichotomization of the world begins.
God IS necessary for spirituality. Read X is necessary for LIFE. Put it this way: we are all human (maybe even Christ ☺), all humans need to know where they are going, that is to say, past to present equals future, OR x is necessary for y, OR something is necessary for life; to a Christian God/Christ is necessary for spirituality/life, to a Muslim Allah is necessary for spirituality/life, to Eckhart Tolle the present moment is necessary for spirituality/life, to the Buddha the empty vessel is necessary for spirituality/life, to the scientist/atheist the answer/the cubit/the atom/the knoweable is necessary for life. All of us humans have a necessary for life and the understanding of it, and God is the relative noun to understand this exponent. Scientists will disagree, but at the end of the day, we all blindly take a leap of faith with our reasons. We all define the source of all sources differently. We all have an arrow to shoot at the target and we all land somewhere differently, yet within relative distance from the target.
“The whole emphasis in Christianity is upon the afterlife, a future eternal life lived in the presence of God. Thus, all the dictates, practices and moralities taught through revelation are not to make the most of this life (although it will be argued abiding by those practices will result in making the most of this life, but that is purely incidental) but to secure a place in heaven.” Peter
This is where Tolle and Buddha have helped me. The “afterlife” is now. Remember, there is nothing new. If the after life is new, you are mistaken and so is Whitman and Ecclesiastes. If the after life is now, what does it mean. It means I have the ability to become born-again every moment just as Christ chose to do. Heaven is here and now and mean we must make the most of this life God has given us and Christ has reminded us of.
“And then, not only is this world inferior to heaven, it is also bad. Men are born into sin, the senses are not to be trusted (true), the pleasures of this world are insubstantial and inferior to devotion and prayer (true), the body is ugly (judgement?) and dust (eventually) and just a storehouse for the soul (read empty vessel). How is one ever to believe in the goodness of man and this life (faith)?” Peter
Once you feel the spirit within, and every one has the ability, you realize this world of temptation and sin is inferior to the world of heaven and compassion. We are born into sin and it is our spiritual path.
“I don’t think it was our eating of the apple of the knowledge of good and evil that robbed us of our innocence, I think it is the ultimatum of heaven or hell.” Peter
Here we go again dichotomizing and making it an either/or; why can’t it be both? Tolle hits this one on the head. As soon as we eat the apple of knowledge, we give birth to the Egoic mind and it’s a slippery slope from there. This is Christ talking of judgement and casting stones.
Sorry for the long post, I am catching up on the great talk. I will end and post now as I read to the present of this blog. Might I end by stating that up until now, from what I understand of Tolle and Christ and this blog is there are more similarities than differences. The one big hang-up this blog has against Tolle is that he is not acknowledging Christ as the “unique” Son of God. This to me is not a bad thing. I won’t judge him here and throw stones saying he is right or wrong. I only see him as trying to elevate us to the same levels that Christ achieved. He is trying to say that we are equal and able to be like Christ was. Whether he was the King of the Castle and we are all dirty rascals is neither here nor there if we are concerned with the present moment, nothing is new or old, and all we have is the now to be with our brothers and sisters of this LIFE.
Thank you for the wonderful and non-violent communication. Love Michael.
“Mostly I have to bow to the intelligence of your defense.” Peter
Here here! What a great thing to see two opposing forces flowing as one.
“What the Bible teaches is we are created – body, soul and spirit – and thus we shall be after the resurrection of the dead.” Proleptic
I was struck by the infinity symbol the other day. The left circle is the past and it bends and distorts itself to twist to the other circle on the right which is the future. In the middle is the present moment of which there is nothing old (past) and nothing new (future). This is the “resurrection of the dead” or any mentioning of any change in time, any rebirth, or renewal. The existentialists were trying to point to this as do the anarchists. It doesn’t matter what camp you choose to pitch your tent in, what matters is how you pitch your tent, the energy/antics/aura you move with as you put your pegs in the ground; it’s how you welcome your neighbour once you are finished or help your neighbour (before your tent is up) ☺.
“What is joy, love, peace, happiness but just mere chemical reactions in the brain in a random world of chance chemical reactions?” Proleptic
Whether joy, love (the communion of joy and peace), peace, and happiness (the seedling of joy) are “mere” (assumption) chemical reactions or the flowing light/energy of a divine source is neither here nor there, both camps are arguing the source and the source is God or any other word we choose. A “random world of chance” is dichotomizing again and only giving half the picture. Chaos theory has now shown graphically (beautifully graphically) that random and order are inseparable. This is God, the orderly source of light revealing itself (him/herself) into the random maths of the sciences. Thus the chance chemical/light reactions are guided by the source (God or X) and the vessels (ourselves) in union and holy matrimony ☺
“I have avoided mentioning the particular “brand” of Christianity I am a part of – I suspect it would stereo type me. I find that within every orthodox community there are all levels of commitment and all kinds of motivations. I stopped looking for the perfect church long ago – even if I found it my joining them would mess things up. The best thing I can do is seek to follow Jesus, and continually try to discover what that means in every day life.” Proleptic
I Love the way you think (or don’t think). If we were to accept no labels, then there would be less blood shed and war. To accept a label is to say I am this and not this. Christ and Tolle have both helped me greatly understand this slippery slope of the mind and how (Tolle) the Ego loves labels.
Again thank you. I’m sorry if i’m behind the conversation. Ignore me if i’m grossly out of touch. I am adding in hopes of helping the understanding of our brotherly and sisterly Love as Christ and Tolle and Buddha and Lao Tze and we all can rise towards each moment.
[...] Two things I find it unfortunate and tragic about this: First, that Tolle would use Jesus to sell his Eastern mysticism. I can’t find any other reason why he would need to even mention Jesus in A New Earth. As I stated in another comment on another post, I would not have given this book or Tolle any attention had he kept Jesus and the Bible out of it. There are a lot of books on Eastern mysticism, Hinduism, etc. filling bookstores and I never have mentioned one. I suspect Tolle uses Jesus to make what he is saying seem pallitable to Westerners, to Christians, to church people. Second, I find it really tragic that people are not more discerning when encountering this sort of thing. I find a number of people don’t seem to recognize the difference between Tolle’s view of Christ, God, salvation, human nature and eternity and the historical orthodox view.“Eckhart Tolle, Who do you say that I Am?” – Jesus- « Proleptic Life [...]
[...] “ECKHART TOLLE, WHO DO YOU SAY THAT I AM?” - JESUS- “Eckhart Tolle, Who do you say that I Am?” – Jesus- « Proleptic Life [...]
Why not use Jesus to enhance his “Eastern” mysticism, as you call Tolle’s non-dualist spirituality? Was not Jesus from the Middle-”East”? If the the Kingdom of God is within us as Jesus taught why should 2000 years of Christian anthropomorphic schizophrenic denial of man’s true spiritual nature be allowed to continue unadopted or unchallenged? Tolle is, of course, not the first to attempt to reinvigorate Jesus’ attributable teachings with a “mystical” view and to breath new life into his beatitudes and the Sermon on the Mount’s undeniable expressions of “Eastern” NON-attachment,judgment and resistence. The Theosophist’s have incorporated Jesus’ radical teachings for over a century as have many other metaphysicians. So, why the hysteria? The Bible is not copyrighted nor did Jesus give his “blessing” to Christianity as the sole interpreter of his message. He only told his apostles and disciples to spread the “good news”…and many of his earliest dedicated followers differed widely as to exactly what that “news” was actually saying to mankind. Christian orthodox interpretations from Roman Catholicism to Protestant Fundamentalism have often failed miserably to capture the true spirit of his teachings and it is time again that we revisit alternate understandings of some of the greatest of his spiritual truths. How many of these “protectors” and defenders of the Faith actually practice Matthew 5:38-39 “Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”
The only Christians I have seen in modern times or in any time since Jesus uttered these words are the Amish. Christians are great at teaching forgiveness to their children but so few actually understand its true practice. Their raison d’etre is all about “resisting evil” as THEY define it. Our “Christian” nation participated in a grand scale through foreign interventionist policies in just the 20th Century to the tune of politically caused deaths: 214M to 226M, incl…
Deaths in wars and conflicts, incl. civilian: 130M-142M (only 60m of those can be blamed on Communism and Stalin). We are now RESPONSIBLE according to a Johns Hopkins study which has estimated that between 420,000 and 790,000 Iraqis have died as a result of war and political violence since the beginning of the US invasion and America’s “War of Agression” in March, 2003(there are smaller estimates and even larger ones).
As a group it has been the “right wing” religionist’s who have to a larger percentage than any other political ideology that have supported this kind of world-wide slaughter.
I say it is time those of us with a progressive and peaceful worldview reclaim Jesus as the “Teacher of Righteousness” and “spirit” him away from those who deify him as “Christ, the Lord” and use him in defense of their wars against the “evil” hordes of non-believers (the Commies) and those of another faith (the IslamoFascists).
Let us now make Jesus our own and bring the true spirit of his radical teachings into our lives and into our foreign policy…we will honor him as the “Left-Hand of God”, where he has always belonged, NOT as His right-hand.
Your Brother in Spirit,
Wayne
People, wake up and smell the coffee!! Maybe the shit would be more apt! This scary,beady-eyed imp Eckhardt is beyond creepy, to say nothing of his LACK OF CREDENTIALS! AND WHAT THE FUCK MAKES ORCA WINFREY A SPIRITUAL LEADER??? EXPLAIN THAT TO ME!
The bible has been retranslated so many times that it loses something each time.And it was written by people who DIDN’T HAVE WORD PROCESSORS! The NT was written in 70AD, and RESPONSIBLE THEOLGIANS know that it was passed by word of mouth (oral tradition) from 33-70AD, when wealthy,literate,educated MEN with their AGENDAS wrote this! How can you prove it wasn’t “Cheeses of Nazareth”? Just play ‘whisper’ with ten people and the initial story or ‘line’ will be vastly different when you get to the end.
If you want to believe in what you are told is Jesus’word in the Bible, do so, but use the historical critical methodology when seeking scriptural passages, and NEVER take them out of context or proof-text!
Why I am writing this is beyond me, because no one will listen to a responsible, Jesuit-educated theologian! Please put Orca in HER place with this shitwit Tolle! THEY ARE ONLY OUT TO GAIN YOUR MONEY!
mari, you sure do have a funny way with words for a spiritual person, anger is no way to solve a problem, you obviously have not read eckart’s books, neither eckart nor oprah have made a penny off of my spiritual gain and understanding of God and Christ’s consciousness, they offered the discussions of the chapters for free even, don’t let fear be your motivation to react with anger or disgust…it is much more productive to respond with heartful intelligence and compassion for all trying to become more in touch with God and the Christ consciousness….study the Lord’s prayer and take it to heart…Eckhart’s interpretation can only strengthen your faith beyond the world of egoic mind and reason…peace and love to all!
Dear Mari,
If you are truly “a responsible, Jesuit-educated theologian” and that, I presume, would give you spiritual “credentials” which you decry that Tolle lacks. I for one am elated that neither Tolle nor Oprah is “qualified” to speak of spiritual things by your standard!
Obviously, you left the seminary with your complete ego fully intact…and, may I add, without any spirituality or humility. It is quite apparent that your Jesuit education has failed you miserably, but given its history and intrigue I am not surprised.
Your historical NT assessment although accurate is commandingly outweighed by your negative egoic judgment and spiritual ignorance. You would be greatly served by studying Tolle’s exposition of the nature of your destructive “pain body” and it would greatly aid in your spiritual transformation…woefully inadequate in your religious “education”.
I wish you good luck in finding a position in which “a responsible theologian” is required.
Your Brother in Spirit,
Wayne
The problem with religion is its orthodoxy. I was born a Christian, but so what. I do believe in Jesus Christ and in God, but I don’t believe in orthodox Christianity because of their limited perceptions. Just because I am a Christian doesn’t mean I have to believe every dogma and doctrines that they profess as true. There is a great difference between religion and spirituality. The purpose of all religions is to help man to realize that the Divine does exist and that a direct relationship between God and man exists. Orthodox Christians believe that only through Jesus Christ can one be saved. Orthodox Muslims believe that only their religion is the true religion. So we have a problem here, some are saved and others are not! If you take any scripture literally, you will never arrive at Truth! Truth can only be experienced. Throughout history we have had various spiritual teachers, Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed, Krishna, etc. What people don’t seem to understand is that the difference between Jesus and us is that Jesus has a direct experience and realization of God, while the vast majority of people do not. Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, and other spiritual leaders are known as mystics. A mystic is one who has had a direct experience with God. He just doesn’t “believe” in God, but “knows” God because of direct conscious experience. Most orthodox religious people have never had a direct permanent experience of God, so they can only “believe” in God and follow and use the scriptures as guidance. Scriptures and religions are just guidelines for those who are not ready and who are not able to have a direct experience. Do you actually believe that you know God just by believing in the Bible and following your religion? One of the disciples asked Jesus why is it that He speaks to the masses in parables. And Jesus replied that it is because that they are not ready to receive Truth. God is not Christianity, nor Buddhism nor Islam. He cannot be limited to such concepts. God is the Absolute! All religions hold esoteric truths and cannot be understood just by reading any scripture. As Jesus said, “Ye are Gods”. The problem with so called religious people is that they do not understand spritual facts. God or the Absolute is like a sea of energy or force that permeates everything and is within us. We have soul and this soul is a part of God, perfect. The soul cannot be damned to hell because it is perfect and is God! Each soul within us is a part of everyone else’s soul and is a part of God. Our soul is like drops of water which is a part of the same essence of the ocean of God, no separation. Hence we are Gods! Of course there is only one God, but when it is said that we are Gods, it is taken to mean that all of us have soul, and therefore we are not separate from the one source, the Absolute. The only way we can know God is through self realization, the turning of the mind away from perception of the objective world towards a perception of the soul. Anyone who has never had illumination cannot know God! Because God is spirit and can only be perceived through contact with our own spirit, the soul, through mind perception. And to all those who follow their religions and scriptures and form their own biased beliefs, they can only have faith in God, but can never claim a direct knowledge of God. The real message of all avatars or spritual leaders or prophets is that man does have soul, that his soul is a part of God, and that a direct experience is possible. It matters not to what religion you belong to or even if you are an atheist,for we all are a part of God. And while religionists proclaim they have a monoploy on truth, the real truth is that all men have a monoploy on truth which is within themselves and have to be realized through direct experience and not just through blind faith. In short we are already “saved” because we are all a part of God whether we like it or not! The real quest is to become aware of this truth, to have a direct experience with the Divinity within. So while you may prat on about whether Jesus is the Son of God or not or what does it mean, it matters not to God! What does matter is that you try in your life time to come in contact with the soul within. When Jesus said that “I am the way”. He did not mean Jesus as a person, he meant the Christ, which is the soul part within us all. In all religions you have mystics. Anyone who has had a real spritual revelation, will have an influx of knowledge that can permanently change the individual and the way they percieve the world. These types of individuals are way beyond us. They do not just have “faith” in God, they “know” God through direct experience. And once you have had this experience, your reading of the scriptures will take on a new meaning and you will realize that all religions hold the same essential truths. God is One! But people do not really understand this concept. God is not just person apart from the world. He is literally within and without everything! He is All! But in the world we cannot see this. We see only division and separateness. We live in a material and objective world where we see nothing but separateness. We see a rock, a person, and see that they are separate from us. So we have no concept of oneness or unity. We know that the material universe is made up of atoms. And the atom is the ulimate manifestation of matter. Our sense perceptions are material and can sense only the objective reality of the atoms that allow us to see separate objects. But once we divide the atoms up into electrons, protons and neutrons, the material, solid world would not be percieved. Scientists tell us that the electrons are in fact particles of energy and they can appear as particles or as waves of energy. Do you not realize that science is in fact proving the existence of the unity of all manifestation? What you see in empty space in front of you is not empty but waves of energy that your objective senses cannot pick up! I shall say this. I look up into the sky and see the sun. In reality, the sun is separate from me. But in essence it is a part of me! For the space between me and the sun is filled with vibrations energy of which I and the sun are a part of. We are like separate waves on a ocean, each wave having its own distinctive motion and reality, but we are still part of the fathomless ocean. Every human being is like walking separate light bulbs, and we see only our separateness, and the light that each of us shines. We see only the glass lamp bulbs that each of us shine. But, we do not realize nor see the electrical energy within the bulb that allows us to shine. And we know not that this energy is that which flows through all of us light bulbs. If the lamp were to direct its sight within, then we would see our own electical energy that runs through all light bulbs. And so are our bodies, just illusory vehicles of seemingly separate individuals grasping at scriptures and doctrines as if our lives depended on it, without really understanding those scriptures that are trying to tell us that we need to look no further than within us! That our soul is a living force and real and not just some religious poetic utterence. Religion really means the worshipping and adulation of some superior being. But Spirituality, the true essence of religion, is the understanding that spirit does exist, and it exists within us all. Our spirit, our soul, wants to be discovered, and it cares not whether you follow Jesus or not! Jesus didn’t come down here to tell us to follow his ego personally! He is not some egotistical being! He came here to tell us, like all the others that God exists, anf that man has soul, and that man can “know” his soul! Jesus said that I and the Father are One! This is a truth! But so are we one with the Father! The only difference between us and Jesus is that we don’t realize this! That is the purpose of all religions, to get man to wake up. And Eckhart Tolle, has every right to refer to Jesus and to form his own opinions! Because, he, unlike those so called “know it all” Christians, has had a direct experience of the Divine within himself. Tolle just doesn’t believe in God, he “knows” God! He has had a conscious spiritual experience and vision with the source. A day will come when religion will not be needed. Religion are for those who need crutches. Religion are for those who do not know God, but believe that he exists somehow and somewhere. Religion is like going to school and being taught how to be good, kind, and just and all the moral principles that are needed to make pupils behave properly. But, when the time is ripe, you will no longer need a teacher to tell you how to behave or some dried out doctrine to create fear in you to force you to repent and to follow the “way”. Because once you have had mystical illumination and have experienced the oneness of God within you, then you will know truth, and you will follow the dictates of your soul which is a part of God and you will need no priest, Imam, vicar to tell you how to behave! Because you have met your soul literally and need no other guide than that truth or God which now has been awakened within you! And speaking personally, I do not consider myself as an orthodox Christian. I am a Christian in the sense that I admire and hold reverence Jesus, as well as all religious founders. I do not consider any one religion to have a monopoply on truth. There are many famous writers who have had spiritual illuminations such as Walt Whitman, Shakespeare (not the real author), Blake, Dante, Richard Maurice Bucke, etc. And of course, ones spiritual illuminations are not all of the same degree and profundity. The Bible or any religious scripture is not meant to be taken as the ultimate road to truth. The Bible is a recording of certain truths and teachings that is supposed to guide man to the real truth within, a real experience.